Darcy (0:00)

We acknowledge the lives lost to suicide and recognise those who have survived suicide attempts. And those who struggle today or in the past with thoughts of suicide, mental health issues and crisis situations. We acknowledge all those who have felt the deep impact of suicide, including those who love, care and support people experiencing suicidality and those experiencing the pain and bereavement through suicide. We respect collaboration with people who have a lived or living experience of suicide and mental health issues and value their contribution to the work we do.

Andrew (0:32)

I can safely say I’m still having the daily battles with the inner demons, but this time, nine times out of ten, I have the upper hand now. I have better days now that I did historically.

Darcy (0:44) 

Welcome to Holding on to Hope, the series that shares the stories of everyday Australians that have experienced moments in crisis and found a path to support. Whilst all of the stories shared offer hope and inspiration, at times, you may hear something you find triggering. If you or someone you know needs crisis support, please phone Lifeline on 13 11 14, Text 0477 13 11 14 or visit toolkit.lifeline.org.au for Lifeline chat service, which is 24/7.

Ruben (1:17)

Welcome to Lifeline’s podcast Holding on to Hope. I'm your host Ruben MacKellar. Today, we’re honoured to introduce Andrew, a Yamatji man from Western Australia's Murchison-Gascoyne country, Andrew has walked a challenging path, grappling with depression and anxiety for over a decade. He vividly describes his journey as having the Black Dog visit him frequently. Casting long shadows of despair and confusion, these dark clouds often obscured his sense of direction, leaving him unable to see a clear path forward. In today's episode, Andrew will share insights into his coping strategies, the hurdles he has overcome, and the message of hope he carries for both Indigenous and non-Indigenous communities join as we explore Andrews inspiring journey of resilience and his commitment to making a positive impact on mental health awareness in Australia.

Well, Andrew, thank you for joining us. And I'd like to invite you to share whatever you are comfortable in doing so about your teenage years,

Andrew (2:16)

I grew up in a household with domestic violence. Alcohol and drugs were abound. It was basically all I knew growing up. It seemed to happen across all of my mob, it didn't matter whether it was uncles, cousins or otherwise. So growing up in this sort of type of household knowing that drugs and alcohol were just part of everyday life unfortunately. My teenage years, I was 16 years old, was coming to the end of Year 12. I had no friends, I was socially isolated. Whatever family I had, I was arguing with, I knew that there was something wrong and became violent, mostly at myself. I didn't want to sort of relay that violence to anyone else in my family immediate or extended. I would literally try to beat whatever was wrong with me out of my system. When I was my mid-teens at 16, or going on to 17, just shortly after finishing Year 12. That sort of foundation led up into feelings of suicide ideations. I knew that there was something wrong, I did try to go see GPs. At that point in time, it wasn't as well known as today, there's so much more awareness around mental health - I’m talking about the 1970s. So I would see GPs, and they would either say I'm stressed, they would say I'm tired, or they say on the combination of the both. Never, never anything to do with or any sort of link back to depression and anxiety, which is eventually what I was diagnosed with.

Ruben (3:43)

Can you paint a picture of what was going on in your world to when you first became aware of your own suicidal thoughts or feelings?

Andrew (3:49)

Basically, no friends, no family, no support network, no one to turn to, no one to sort of give me any sort of confidence in what I was doing in any way, shape or form. Culturally, you can't speak of mental health issues. In respect to my mum, even if you do talk about it today, it’s swept under the carpet. My parents thought it was a kind of flu virus that Andrew would get over and within a week or two, but it wasn't that it was a battle with my inner demons. Inner demons go hand-in-hand with the inner critic, and the inner critic is effectively telling me I'm hopeless, I'm useless, there’s no future, you might as well take yourself out of the picture completely. There's a phrase my father used to say, ‘Being six feet above the ground is better than being six foot under.’ I sort of chose the latter to stop the noise in every way shape and form. The noise being the inner critic, the battle with the inner demons. So that's exactly the sort of daily event that I faced 100 percent of the time it was in a demon battle daily.

Ruben (4:48)

Could you share these feelings of suicidality affected your relationships work or, or other aspects of your everyday routine?

Andrew (4:55)

I found it difficult to hold down a job if and when I did have a job to go to, I would often put sort of excuses as some sort of smokescreen to try and get their attention away from what's wrong with Andrew. The feelings of suicidality didn't disperse, it didn't disappear. It was with me daily.I call it the monkey on my shoulder. It was like having a monkey on my shoulder with the sort of consistent negative, steady chatter. At the time, I found it extremely difficult to hold down a job. And what would make it worse is that I was trying to get along with mob, but everything that I was going through just distance myself, even from my brothers and sisters, who just had no idea what I was going through, but I went through further and further away distance myself from mob knowing that I couldn't talk about and if I did, again, again, it would just be swept under the carpet.

Ruben (5:44)

What were the significant impacts of dealing with suicidal thoughts on your mental and emotional well being?

Andrew (5:49)

Effectively, it impacted my mental and emotional well being savagely. I had zero self-confidence, I had zero belief in myself. I certainly believe that I was not destined to be a walk in the earth for too much longer at the time. There was nothing positive that I could see. And I use this analogy, sometimes black clouds literally would descend to a point where, you know, I couldn't see two feet in front, two feet behind it, or over the side. And the dark clouds brought this sort of, again, a sort of more intense form of negative chatter, stronger inner demons.

Ruben (6:25)

At what point did you realise that you needed support for your suicidal thoughts or feelings?

Andrew (6:30)

Well, that's just it. I didn't seek help. And the help that I did get was, ‘There’s nothing wrong with Andrew, just walk it off.’ That was the sort of response from the sort of GPs that I did manage to see it under my own steam at the time. It wasn't until a good 20 years later, my son was born. And up until that sort of point in time, I was trying to be stoic, trying to be 10-foot tall and bulletproof. Trying to be a manly man and just work whatever was wrong with me out by myself. And again, it just made it worse. My coping mechanism was to take the edge off, to turn to drugs, alcohol. And I'm talking about the times from 16 through to about my early 30s. I was still extremely violent, angry, just also directed at myself. Thankfully, no one else copped that. The sort of turning point was when my son was born. And that's kind of when I knew that I needed to get help. And I need to support these daily scenarios that I was going through. So I literally had an emotional mental breakdown after my son was born. I honestly thought that I'd hit rock bottom, I put my hand up at the time because I was responsible for my son. I finally found the right GP. She knew the signs and symptoms of depression and anxiety. And for the first time in 16-17 odd years, I was correctly diagnosed with depression and anxiety.

Darcy (7:58)

We hope you're enjoying this episode, Lifeline’s new Support Toolkit makes it easier to care for family, friends and loved ones, and look after yourself along the way, visit us at toolkit.lifeline.org.au. Now, back to the episode.

Ruben (8:14)

Reflecting back, what would you say was your biggest hurdle or challenge in taking that crucial first step towards getting help?

Andrew (8:19)

I was trying to be something I wasn't. The only role model I had at the time was my father, who, from the Baby Boomer generation did exactly the same thing. If there was something wrong with him, he would suck it up, walk it off. My father would be the stoic type of person, not a really great role model to speak of. But I guess I was letting history repeat itself. The biggest hurdle was getting over that sort of traditional perspective or what's expected of a father, a brother, an uncle, a son trying to sort of fit that sort of mould of the manly man. The man who doesn't need help. The man who stuffs all of this stuff down. That was actually the biggest hurdle for me. And on top of that, you've got to sort of remember that's I've got cultural, all the sort of pressures to compound that, that sort of that hurdle. So not only have you got this sort of mix of me, trying to repeat history and be like my father was. Culturally, it brings shame to my family, shame to my mob. Anyone who suffered from a mental illness in my family, again, culturally, you just couldn’t talk about it. Why not just suffer in silence as I did?

Ruben (9:33)

How did you go about finding the support you needed when dealing with suicidality? And what resources or methods were most beneficial for you?

Andrew (9:42)

First port of call was to find the GP. And that took multiple attempts, there was a lot of misdiagnosis. Finally found one they diagnosed me with depression and anxiety. And gave me a referral to a psychiatrist. Thankfully, wasn't the type of psychiatrist who just writes a script for whatever ailment you have, whatever issue you have. I was fortunate to meet a psychiatrist who had a holistic sort of perspective in regard to treating depression and anxiety. From the GP and other referral rolled on to a psychologist as well, there were multiple hospital visits. That was also part of my recovery phase. So walking side-by-side with the medical professional team, I like to call them. All trial and error to find the professionals that are needed. But at the same time, I needed that sort of extra help to really change my mindset. And that's exactly what we were trying to do.

Ruben (10:33)

How has reconnecting with modern Country helped you on your journey?

Andrew (10:37)

I’m old enough to appreciate mob at country more-so than I have ever in my 54-odd years. I'm living in Sydney. I'm originally from a very small country town in Central Western Australia. I'm going back every six months now to reconnect a Country, reconnect to mob. I did that just recently. And unfortunately, the matriarch of my family. My, and I like spruiking this because it's, it's an amazing stat. My grandmother is 99 years old. I went home to Country just recently stay with my grandmother in the same house that I grew up in, and that all my mob sort of congregate around because my grandmother's the matriarch of the family. I reconnected to Country by just walking on the red dirt that is outside of town. And that is my Country. It's like everything came back into balance. When I reconnected with the Country. That's just one part of the equation. But the other part of the equation is once my mob knows I'm in town. It's reconnecting with aunties, it's reconnecting with uncles, cousins, brothers and my sister. I can't stress this enough. And it really suddenly comes to me in recent years for reconnecting to Country. Reconnecting to mob keeps on my mental health strong. I was having a real tough time recently, like late last year, and going back to Country, has really made a difference. My mob has eleven Brothers and sisters. So if you can imagine, multiply how many cousins I have - it’s a big family. So there's no such thing as a holiday going back to Country! I'll say that, but at the same time, yeah it's life-changing. It's really energising, it's rebalancing. I like to call it recalibrating the mental strength.

Ruben (12:20)

What specific actions did you implement or habits did you develop to cope with suicidal thoughts or emotions? 

Andrew (12:27)

I can safely say, I'm still having the daily battles with the inner demons. But this time, nine times out of ten, I have the upper hand now. I have better days now than I did historically. I do a number of things. I'm heavily into martial arts. And in martial arts, I have an internal focus, there's a lot of mindfulness. Taking the time out to not just to do the physical sort of training but time out for mental training. So mental strength through a lot of mindfulness exercises. I've done martial arts since I was about 15 or 16. That's kind of being this sort of common thread through my life, even to today, I have a mental health checklist. It's a combination of mindfulness, diarising, gratefulness, literally writing down three things that I'm grateful for every day, and physical exercise, I exercise physically daily. So exercise, I try to watch what I eat. So diet wise. So I really try to look after the physical element. But at the same time, don't ignore the sort of mental side of things. Need to keep the mental health strong distance as you would physical strength, physical health. So I do a lot of reading and writing. I speak to indigenous communities about mental health. I find that therapeutic as well, just educating more about stuff that I couldn't talk about. 

Ruben (13:41)

Andrew, looking back at your journey, what valuable insights or lessons have you learned about yourself and your mental health?

Andrew (13:48)

A couple of valuable insights, don't try to be ten-foot tall and bulletproof. Don't follow a sort of a generation that wasn't really a great role model. Put your hand up for help. There's absolutely no shame brought to mob or just no shame, full stop. Logically speaking, it's the bravest thing that you can do. Nothing to be ashamed of. And those are the sort of two sort of insights that I carry with myself and have for some time, don't be ten-foot tall and bulletproof. That never works. Put your hand up for help immediately. No shame be it non-Indigenous or Indigenous mob on non-Indigenous mob. But also reiterate this time, it's better to be six-foot above ground and in the picture, versus six-foot underground and not in the picture. 

Ruben (14:33)

How are you doing now and have you gained a better understanding of your triggers for suicidal thoughts?

Andrew (14:39)

These days, my finger is definitely on the pulse 24/7. As in, I know my triggers nine times out of ten I'm capturing the monkey on my shoulder, the inner critic and the inner demons spruiking negative thoughts. I'm able to capture that. I'm able to use strategies, both physically and mentally. That could be as simple as going into the gym, doing some exercise, doing mindfulness, doing my martial art training. Now these days much stronger. But again, I have my bad days as well. And no system is perfect. But I have a lot more sort of knowledge, a lot more tools at my disposal. It doesn't require a rocket science. Take yourself out for work, do some exercise. If I'm having a really bad day, I'm immediately going to a GP, my psychologist or psychiatrist for help, just to get that extra support needed. 

Ruben (15:29)

What would be your message of hope for someone listening who is currently struggling? 

Andrew (15:34)

Don’t try and walk that off. Just put your hand up for help, it's as simple as that. No shame in it whatsoever.

Ruben (15:39)

I thank you, Andrew, and appreciate everything that you've given us and being able to share your story and journey with us. And lastly, thank you so much for joining us and holding on to hope. 

Andrew (15:51)

Thank you, Reuben, really appreciate it. Thank you. 

Darcy (15:52)

Thanks for listening to Holding on to Hope, the podcast. Lifeline is grateful to all Holding on to Hope participants for choosing to share their personal lived experiences openly and courageously. In order to offer hope and inspiration to others. Your act of kindness makes for a better world. And remember, you don't have to struggle, visit toolkit.lifeline.org.au today.