Darcy:

Welcome to holding on to hope, a series that shares the stories of everyday Australians that have experienced moments in crisis and found a path to support, whilst all of the stories shared offer hope and inspiration. At times, you may hear something you find triggering, if you or someone you know needs crisis support, please phone Lifeline on 13 11 14, text 0477 13 11 14, or visit Lifeline.org.au, for Lifeline chat service, which is 24/7,

Carla 00:30

Francis has dedicated years to supporting others through their darkest moments as a former Lifeline crisis supporter and in her personal life, but one unexpected encounter brought home to her just how powerful human connection can be. While out in the community, she spent hours with a stranger in crisis, offering comfort and care, an experience that left a profound and lasting impact on her. That moment prompted Frances to reach out to Lifeline, not because she was suicidal, but because she needed a safe space to debrief, unpack what she had witnessed and feel truly heard and understood. It was a powerful reminder that Lifeline is here, not only to prevent suicide, but to provide compassion and connection to anyone who needs to talk through serious or confronting experiences today, Frances shares her story and reminds us the difference we can all make when we choose to listen and care. Welcome Francis, so good to have you here. You've got a really interesting story to tell. You're a person who's used and been on both sides of Lifeline. So we're going to explore that a bit today.

Frances 01:35

It was just a lovely invitation to receive. Thank you.

Carla 01:39

Can you take us back to that moment in a cafe with a stranger in crisis.

Frances 01:45

I had taken myself to the local cafe having had a wonderful event, I led and was supported by a group of people organizing a 50 year reunion of speech pathologists with whom I'd graduated in this particular city, I was feeling incredibly buoyant and probably quite chuffed, so I took myself there. I was just quietly sitting there, reflecting back on what we'd achieved, and it was remarkable. And then out of the corner of my eye I saw a gentleman with a staff member. I had no idea who this man was standing over him, but he was berating the customer. He I didn't know what was going on, but I did hear I'll call the police. My perception was that this was a conflict. This was a confrontation. I looked at the man after the staff member left, and I wasn't sure what the staff member was going to do, but I watched, and we speech pathologists are trained in observation, and it was evident to me, this man was very distressed, possibly incapable of making a decision about how to act. I sat there. I'm the mother of four adults, one of whom has a rather interesting sense of humor. I have been referred to as a chronic interferer. I sat and thought, Oh, am I interfering? I followed my heart and my intuition. I stood up, went across and introduced myself. I asked him, might I sit down here with you? And he said, Yes, so I then went on to support him through many hours. We were actually asked to leave. I asked permission of the manager to move to a table outside, which we did. I used various skills to support him. I don't know how much you want to know about that, but it was a very lengthy, long connection. He often said, Why do you care? What are you doing? Go away. You know, I tried to assure him that I didn't need anything from him, but that I would be there as long as I could be. He was a man in deep, deep crisis, and had been for many years through addiction, difficulty maintaining his place in the world. His story was that he had lost his family. He had descended into severe addiction. I just listened. I really remember visualizing, I call it my Hello, hello hat. I put on my Lifeline hat because I'd been trained extensively and I listened. I did a lot of reflecting, of emotion. There was shame. Him, there was dreadful distress about the events of the previous weekend and where he had found himself that day. I summarized as I picked up part of the story. I absolutely checked for suicide. What I did, with his permission, was ring the ambulance and speak to the mental health nurse who spoke to me and spoke to him. It was my perception that certainly there had been and was suicidal ideation. However, in that place, there was no plan, and no means it was a long, supportive experience of connecting with services. I look back and think the universe was shining on us because he gave me the name of his treating GP, and I rang this medical practice, and the doctor came to the phone. It was extraordinary. He spoke to me. He spoke to this gentleman. And so we checked with lots of services. We felt connected, but I knew there was a risk. The mental health nurse certainly went through with me a risk assessment. I did not feel unsafe because I was in a public place, but he was in a very dark place. One point he disappeared. He just jumped up from the table and ran up the street. I didn't quite know what to do, but I sat there. He then returned with a bottle of alcohol, right? And said, here, this is for you. But then at another time, he took it and ran away again and went up an alley. So, you know, there was a lots of agitation, but the grounding of the training I've had both from Lifeline and I have been trained in in a counseling course I did at one stage. So we stayed, and ultimately, a person known to him did come and take him to hospital. I don't know whether that's sufficient picture for you, but it was certainly he'd been from his what he told me, and

I have affirmed this an elite athlete. He had lived a particularly public, somewhat charmed life, but the stressors and the options for choosing self medication, partying had led to his what he would call his downfall. Many of us would hesitate. The generation that I was brought up in, you don't interfere. Well, I just could see the distress. But it was an extraordinary experience. So yes, he was with a safe person who did arrive eventually. But on the other thing I want to say is that we rang social services because he was desperately agitated about the fact that he hadn't reported because he was on jobs. This was quite late. We, you know, we've been there for some hours. And give the staff at the cafe credit, they didn't come and try and move us on. They must have believed that the situation was under control. To some extent. We rang social services and both the gentleman, whom I call Harry, he somehow remembered his CRN number. I was sat there

Carla 08:40

who remembers that

Frances 08:41

he was so intoxicated, but anyway, he did remember. And then the staff member who came to the phone was magnificent. I thought to myself, you a Lifeline crisis support worker, he was just spot on.

Carla 08:52

You've also mentioned that that this moment brought up some personal memories. And so how has your own family's experience of of mental health shaped your perspective.

Frances 09:03

I'm sure it's motivated me in countless ways to understand I mean, many families are beset by members of their family with mental illness, mental health challenges. In my particular family, growing up, when I did, there was incredible lack of awareness. That was a taboo subject. There were barriers for people, and it was an incredibly baffling experience for many members of the family, and it brought out all sorts of combative, difficult dynamics. But because of my understanding of the health system, I probably had more of a compass to navigate myself with it, and that's what I think is important too. It's so hard for families, and these days it's becoming increasingly hard with stretch resources. But my experience. And that that happened in my very early childhood. I was motivated to do speech pathology because of family experience with a sibling, so it's obviously had a huge impact for me and equipping families to be aware of the need for self care, but also for care of their family system and supporting I mean, there's a lot of work goes on now, you know, for families, but it, it wasn't easy when, when I was becoming aware of all of this, and I was living interstate, so I was the interstate relative, it was hard, but it's had remarkable contribution to my growth. And I'm sounds almost a bit strange to say it, but it's been an experience that has taught me an enormous amount. I hesitate to say it was a gift. I think it's especially for those people who have mental health challenges. It's profoundly difficult.

Carla 11:07

We hope you're enjoying this episode. Lifelines, new support toolkit makes it easier to care for family, friends and loved ones and look after yourself along the way. Visit us@toolkit.Lifeline.org.au now back to the episode.

Carla 11:24

So after this deep experience with Harry in the cafe, you went from someone on receiving calls for Lifeline, you reached out and picked up the phone and called Lifeline yourself. What came about for that what and how did that conversation proceed.

Frances 11:41

I'm well aware of what I would call supportive supervision, and I thought I need debriefing. I need some supervision. And I also need just to express my sorrow for Harry. My hope for Harry, and also I think just go, oh, did that really happen? It felt quite surreal once I started walking up the street on my own in the dark, I thought, goodness gracious me. And I also said to her, I wanted Lifeline to know that the skills they taught me, the privilege of training and working with them, was now something I knew was sustainable and transportable in the community. So it was, it was really important I felt to talk to Lifeline. So there's a multitude of aspects of human life that come to the phones. I felt I was given space to give the details of what I'd offered Harry, of how desperate he was and how sad I felt for him and how worried I was about him. And I also was offered affirmation there were lots of aspects of my experience that I debriefed with the Lifeline Council, and then I think that's what you know is important, that Lifeline appreciate human existence. It's a service, whether it's an op shop, it's a crisis support, it's a digital support. They are there. They will be there

Carla 13:24

And to hear, to hear those moments that don't necessarily need to be a crisis moment. It's to help unpack these events in life, or experiences in life that we need to unpack. We need to share and have that connection to debrief and think about what we can be doing for ourselves to manage that

Frances 13:46

I think that's very true, and often it helps to talk to somebody who's neutral, who's not family, who's not friends, there's not a preconceived judgment or history with this person, and that gives one a space in which the honesty and the the connection can be very real. Carla 14:07

Self care is so important for people who are supporting others. What kind of things do you do to ground yourself, manage emotional fatigue? What works for you?

Frances 14:18

Well, that's been a lifelong learning car I haven't been very good at it.

Carla 14:23

I think we all have peaks and troughs of change ways along our lives.

Frances 14:28

Yeah, I'm a deep, a big extrovert, so I have relied upon debriefing and supportive friendships at work and outside of work. But these days and this has been a growth fitness. When I was in Hobart, there was a marvelous fitness program with the local council, yoga, music, performing arts, walking, journaling, they are the big things for me. I have taken myself off to as part of. My counseling training anyway, it was crucial, but I, of course, was very resistant to that when I started my counseling training. But yes, I have done some really helpful therapy along the way, supervision at Lifeline, supervision at work. It's all been part of it. But these days, yoga, walking, music, being still and reflecting, terrific.

Carla 15:29

So you've had this amazing experience of being able to support someone in Harry in this cafe. What message would you give to people who who want to help but may not feel equipped to do that kind of thing with someone in crisis.

Frances 15:44

I think this is a hard one, because just justifiably so, people might hesitate. I would encourage them, though, as I've said, to believe in themselves, to understand that even the simplest thing can make a big difference. It might be that if I hadn't have had the training and the understanding of the systems, even just the fact that I offered to sit beside Harry, go outside with him and sit with him with water for a little while, but I would encourage people to look out for opportunities if they feel within them, that desire and that interest we can all only do what we can do within our sphere, but even in our neighborhoods or our social clubs, observation, Observe and ponder, what does that look on that man's face? Tell me smiling at people, although I have been known to smile at people, and my darling granddaughter said, granny, that's seriously weird.

Carla 16:56

You don't even know out of the mouths of babes. Just delightful. Good to keep you grounded, right?

Frances 17:04

But I do think that I would encourage people, and sometimes people are very private, and they might, I mean, there's, I think that's one of the things that causes people to hesitate. They think, oh, they think I'm interfering. They think I'm a busy body. But we don't have to intrude. We can say if we're in a parks, walking or sitting on the bench, you know, make a

comment and just connect. But I do think keeping track of if you're interested, there's opportunities in our communities for attending seminars, workshops, all sorts of online things where people can come to understand how to support another.

Carla 17:48

So some of those key skills for crisis situations, people don't need to be a trained Lifeline counselor. There are these skills. How can, how can anyone apply them if they find themselves in a similar situation, wanting to support someone who's obviously in distress

Frances 18:06

Believe in themselves, believe that human connection, willingness to sit and be in someone else's dark place is a gift that's invaluable. Being aware too of the fact that people to whom you offer support may find that just so crucial at certain stages, it mightn't be much. I was thinking about this this morning, because it depends. You don't need sophisticated training. It's the human connection. So it might be that, you know, there's a new mum in the neighborhood, and you might notice a walking and looking stressed, and you might offer a cup of tea or sit on a park bench and just be present.

Carla 18:59

But yes, have a chat. Yes, hear her out.

Frances 19:03

Yes. There are so many barriers. I think lack of awareness, lack of feeling, believing in oneself, just as a as a community member. I think compassionate communities work that's evolving tells us that we can and when we reach out and we trust each other, and trust is a huge thing, isn't it, and many people's trust has been eroded, though I also would encourage people to take part in the training that is available. I know that in various cities. I mean, I was living in Hobart a few years a little while ago, and I know that one of the fitness trainers was doing some tremendous work in workplaces, but that permeates out into families, into social situations, simple training, but supportive counseling skills can be learned very simple, but you know, it's just being you. Present and willing and able to give the time and believe in yourself.

Carla 20:06

So you mentioned human connection as really powerful in moments of distress. Do you want to say a bit more about that? What? What do you think is so powerful about being human with another, with another human?

Frances 20:18

I think it's crucial way of living. Well, little babies, when they're born, they need they thrive in that connection with a human caregiver, and we grow, and we're supposed to become adult, but the being an adult as we know, it was hard work, and my view of caring, connecting and communicating is what I call the core of love in action. If we can have empathy, it's putting another person's hat on our head and trying to appreciate within certain limits. I'm not suggesting I'm a saint, but within certain limits, of course

Carla 21:07

Great and on the other side of the coin for people who are struggling with mental health issues right now, what would you say to encourage them to reach out?

Frances 21:19

I would encourage them to trust that there are services and people in our world who truly are both equipped and have the intent to provide sustainable support. I know it is a it is a hard and at times bewildering journey to find a good fit for oneself and to understand the complexity of our systems. But I think offering people with mental health issues one's time sustaining that connection with them, whether they be a friend or a family member, it can just be simple little acts of kindness that might one day make an impact, and they might feel then prepared or trusting to reach out to a service somewhere.

Carla 22:13

What final message do you want to leave listeners with about the role of compassion and connection

Frances 22:19

We're all capable of offering care and seeing our interactions with others through a compassionate lens. I've been inspired by Mary MacKillop, and she said, Nothing is too little to be noticed. It's really crucial that we notice each other, that we actually are aware, and that then we hold our judgment as much as possible. Don't get me wrong, I know we all judge each other. Of course we do. But if we can just sit and wait, I think if we can encourage our community members to believe they've got skills to offer that's really important. I think communicating and compassionately connecting with others is what can help build communities. And the work of compassionate communities, for one, is a testament to this, but there are many. There are many examples of people coming together.

Carla 23:23

Well, thanks for coming together. On this, tell your story. It's really good to hear it from both sides, you know, and and your thoughts on connection and compassion. It's it'll be really wonderful for people to hear that and reflect on what they might be able to do or extend in their own lives. Frances 23:42

Thank you, Carla, thank you Lifeline. It's been lovely.

Darcy 23:46

Thanks for listening to holding on to hope the podcast. Lifeline is grateful to all holding on to hope participants for choosing to share their personal lived experiences openly and courageously in order to offer hope and inspiration to others, your act of kindness makes for a better world. And remember you can call Lifeline at any time on 13 11 14.