Darcy: We acknowledge the lives lost to suicide and recognise those who have survived suicide attempts and those who struggle today or in the past with thoughts of suicide, mental health issues and crisis situations. We acknowledge all those who have felt the deep impact of suicide, including those who love care and support people experiencing suicidality and those experiencing the pain and bereavement through suicide. We respect collaboration with people who have a lived or living experience of suicide and mental health issues and value their contribution to the work we do.

Imbi: If you have no hope, I will hold it for you and to have so hold on to your hope. The storm will pass. There are people there to help you, just take it out, ask for help.

Darcy: Welcome to Holding on to Hope, the series that shares the stories of everyday Australians that have experienced moments in crisis and found a path to support. Whilst all of the stories share hope and inspiration, at times you may hear something you find triggering, If you or someone you know needs crisis support, please phone lifeline on 1311 14 Text 0477 1311 14 or visit toolkit.lifeline.org.au For Lifeline chat service, which is 24/7.

Ruben: Welcome to "Holding on to Hope," a podcast brought to you by Lifeline. I'm your host, Ruben Mackellar. On World Suicide Prevention Day, we share stories that carry the weight of both loss and hope. Over this two-part series, we invite you to join us for heartfelt conversations that illuminate a topic often hidden in the shadows. Together, we'll discuss how, no matter the life you lead, suicide doesn't discriminate. In this episode, we delve into the narratives of two extraordinary individuals who've navigated the depths of darkness, only to emerge as beacons of strength and resilience. While their paths diverge, a common thread unites them – a journey through despair and an unwavering pursuit of hope.

Imbi Pyman, a mother of three, carries with her a lived and living experience of the impact of suicide. Her youngest son endured a devastating trauma at the age of 12, casting a shadow of fear over their lives. Four years ago, Imbi herself confronted her lowest point, grappling with a desire to escape life's pain. It was during this crucial moment that she turned to Lifeline for support. Imbi's journey has since been fuelled by a passionate commitment to work alongside her husband, illuminating their collective experiences to enhance services and infuse hope into the lives of those navigating similar paths.

Danny is a proud Worimi man and father of two. Danny and his wife, Jac, faced the unimaginable loss of their 14-year-old son, Brady, to suicide in 2018, after he endured severe bullying at school. Their grief transformed into a resolute ambition to ensure that others know help is available during the darkest times. These are stories of pain, resilience, and hope – narratives that remind us that suicide does not discriminate. Imbi and Danny stand as living testaments to the power of human spirit, the strength of community, and the unwavering pursuit of hope.

We dedicate this episode to Brady and Jonas. Let’s dive in.

Imbi: My name is Imbi Danny and I'm 61 my proudest thing is being a mom of three beautiful kids, a grown up kids now 22, 26 and 31. I work in aged care three days a week as a lifestyle therapists doing their fun activities and spend a lot of time working to improve their mental health system and lending my voice to Lifeline.

Danny: My name is Danny. I am 57 I'm a proud Worimi man from Port Stephens area. Also my thing in life in gold was my two boys, big proud of my life. And I also now is sort of Lifeline to help other people.

Ruben: Imbi, can you tell us a little bit about your experience with suicide.

Imbi: I have a lived and a living experience of suicide for many years and our younger son had a horrendous trauma happened to him when he was 12. And we lived within our family for years and years his suicidality, the fear of him taking his own life. And probably four years ago now, after a terrible weekend, I also reached the lowest point in my entire life where I also didn't want to live one minute longer and I reached out to Lifeline. That call got me home safe to my family. So coming at it from both lenses.

Danny: So mine is living experiences for my 14 year old boy back in 2018, he took his own life at 14 after a couple of years of struggling. He was bullied at school, we were taking him to counselling and therapy and stuff like that. But it just came to that stage. He didn't want to be here anymore. And on the sixth of July, he took his own life. And as I say he was 14 years old. So now it's our ambition to try and help other people to see that there is help out there to get him through these dark times. And hopefully, it does help save just one life, well, we've done our job.

Imbi: What a wonderful job you're doing. I'm so so so sorry. A beautiful jack to be able to give back like that. And to lose your beautiful boy. Just incredibly sorry.

Danny: Thank you.

Imbi: And boy, would he be proud of his dad?

Danny: I hope so.

Imbi: He would be. He would be.

Danny: Yeah. So you're going for and now.

Imbi: It's up and down. It's a story. I don't think that has an hopefully not an ending. So we've for many, many years, Danny, the whole collateral damage in our whole family. You know, our beautiful son was the victim in horrendous circumstances, what happened to him, and that's his story. But the damage throughout the whole family, which I'm sure he will relate to was ongoing. And we have hope now there was a long time that we had no hope, it was really hard, accessing help, and really hard sometimes just going to face another day and to keep trying so and Lifeline has helped me a lot. Yeah, and similar, our hope, my husband's hope, our family's hope is that through our story, also, we can give hope to other families who may have had the misfortune to walk the same path or to at least give hope

Danny: With our experiencing be like, after Brady, my father was in hospital with heart problems. And he had a stroke. And then also myself, I was at the table there one morning having breakfast, and I was looking through some photos, and I had a stroke or so. So it's affected our family, not only financially but our own mental health sort of thing has suffered and physical health, and also our friends and relatives and all that sort of stuff, that sort of thing.

Imbi: And you watch the ripple effect around you. And there's the I know, with us, I would watch my sister, for example, I have a beautiful sister, but I watched her be so traumatised and upset on our behalf. And in my direct family, my physical health has really suffered and probably my husband's mental health. So I can relate to what you say, because trauma can manifest itself to ongoing issues. Yeah,

Danny: My other son. He's 21. And after Brady, he didn't know where he belonged. Because he missed his brother sort of thing. And he started coming through the other side down, got a good job. And yeah, he's going quite good.

Imbi: It takes a very long time I would imagine.

Danny: Yes. But I just say we're here for the same purpose, absolutely get our message across other people.

Imbi: To champion Lifeline. To be able to talk talk about it certainly rescued me. That one call that I made in saving me and getting me home, I suspect it saved me around me as well. Danny, what surprised me the most about perhaps what other people may or may not think of suicide, or what I think they don't know is that it can happen to anyone that everyone can reach that point. My daughter who's a psychologist said to me, Mum, there are straws that break people's backs. But you never know what the straw is. And you don't know when it's coming. So I think perhaps for me that moment kind of hit with that warning. Although, when I look back, there was a build-up of stress and a lot that happened. And perhaps some people, although I think that it's getting better just think, oh just that sort of person would ever think about suicide, that mental illness is always at the forefront of suicide. But I don't believe that. I think that can be part of it for many people. But I think other times life circumstances can just get to someone so deeply and so powerfully that they just don't want to continue living.

Danny: I think, yeah, I think the same people are probably quick to judge other people. But until they have sort of walked in their shoes, they don't know what people are going through could be I just say the simplest thing is paying a bill or something like that might just set them off. And as you say, that's the straw that broke the camel's back and can be something simple just like that.

Imbi: Yeah, yeah. And what you find two deadly that people would think oh, you know, that would never happen to my child. Or that would never happen to my wife or my husband or someone would never.

Danny: Yeah, I think come along and admit to like, I would never think something like that would happen to my family sort of thing. But it just proves it doesn't matter what race, what colour or where you're from, it affects everyone sort of thinks, yeah.

Imbi: I explained to someone once Danny, that with me at ringing Lifeline is not on your life plan. You know, you don't it's not something that, you know, I was as horrified and shocked, I think I was the most horrified and the most shocked that but yet there I was and I think it's given me so much understanding, and I hope, respect and I hope, empathy for others, because I've lived it now. And I know that we're all vulnerable

Danny: With my boy, he was passionate about his culture, to the point like, he just went out and do what he wanted to do about Aboriginal culture. And he loved that sort of thing where his brother was, wasn't into it as much. But now Rory, he's got a job on our lend, Aboriginal land council. So now he's found his way to where he's going to be. Yeah, I think it's really good that that's sort of happened for him now that he's wonderful.

Imbi: What an amazing ride. At that age to be so passionate about his culture.

Danny: He was really smart. Like, he loved his dancing and all that sort of stuff, too. But no, he said, No one loved him sort of thing. But he couldn't see past that illness that he had to see how many people like at his funeral was over 700 people at the funeral.

Imbi: So, so sad, because he couldn't feel that bad. It was all there.

Danny: Exactly. Exactly. So yeah. So that's our role here to continue in his memory. And yeah, keep on going.

Imbi: All I can do is say thank you. Thank you. Thank you, to your partner, to Jac and thank you to your son.

Danny: Thank you, before you experience your suicide, how would you portray a person that you would think, yeah, who was vulnerable to suicide look like?

Imbi: I think I probably would have imagined across section but perhaps also someone that was facing a lot of mental health challenges on a day-to-day basis, and perhaps someone who was not supported by family and friends. I've tried to explain, Danny, that for me, I recognise I have a lot of privilege. And we were in the mental health system with therapists that were looking after us, my son, we had a family psychiatrist, I've got a lovely sister, beautiful friends who really cared and had walked the journey with us, I think I would have imagined that someone who was suicidal wouldn't have handled those supports. But what I've learned, because that was me, I didn't want to reach out to anyone, I wanted to be anonymous, I didn't want to be a burden. So I imagined that someone who was facing those challenges would not have had the supports that I had. And what I now know is that when you need the most help you retreat from all the help you've achieved from all the people that love you and support you. Because there's shame, and there's feeling like a burden. So that's, that's the lesson.

Danny: Did you feel ashamed of having that mental issue?

Imbi: I think after I made the call, I was so glad I made the call. And I was so glad by talking to the wonderful person that took my call. And I credit her with getting me home, we made a plan, she got me home to have a cup of tea and to not make that terrible decision. So when I got home, I was horrified though, that I had reached that point. Glad that I was home shaking. And I was ashamed. I thought how, how could I have considered that. So there was shame. And then as time went on, Danny, and I realised I actually went to my son. And I told him I wrote about what happened to me. And because he had been so brave, and he had been facing all his demons and was often suicidal. And we were dealing with all what that meant, and trying to get him help. And then I changed, I became incredibly proud. I was really proud. And I was so grateful. And now I love telling my story. I don't love that it happened to me. I hated getting to that point. And I'm fully aware that it could happen again. And what would I do? I would reach out to Lifeline.

Danny: Yeah, and I think on that side, Jack and myself, we found that too, like we struggle most days sort of to get up and go to work or everyday living sort of thing. We just have something there sort of Keisha area and get you going sort of thing and just sort of keep going and striving for the best thing for the rest of my family and keep strong for them

Imbi: keep strong for them, yourselves and to honour your son. Do you feel him?

Danny: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think he is here today with us.

Imbi: Yeah, I'm sure he is. I'm sure he is. Well, Danny, I want to ask you what you wish other people would know about how suicide affects a family?

Danny: Sure, the way I assume is, people probably don't understand how it does affect them, like, as I say, their own mental health sort of thing, how it tends to sort of isolate our family sort of thing, because they don't want to do like, go out talking about it as much sort of thing. So they sort of retreated back into their own house. And sort of, as I know, with my wife, Jackie doesn't want to leave the house sort of thing. So she'll stay at home. Yeah, getting her out now. And she's getting out and about, but not only our close family, it's our cousins and stuff like that, I've noticed that they struggle quite a lot to have a couple of young nieces. And they're always struggling. So they ring us up and they have a bit of a talk, they have a cry, we have an exam, just try and help them through it. I think if you're not into that, like into their close ring of everyone, people sort of don't realise how it does affect. As I said, it's how health, financially have mental problems sort of things.

Imbi: Do you find that over the years, it's changed. I know, in our very dark times, when things were terrible for our family, we lost a lot of friends. And perhaps some of that was our fault, because we were going through such terrible times you don't raise your head, you know, you're in it, you're in the mess that you're in. But I also think and so our circle got very small. So was it like that?

Danny: Not for us. Ours is probably a bit opposite of that. We sort of, as I say, sort of stuck to ourselves a little bit. But we had lots of friends, who always ringing us up, checking up on us for the we do a Lifeline walk for suicide awareness sort of thing. And we got the show our shirts made up for that walk in honour of Brady. So we've got probably like 150 people who join us on that walk. And we all wear these blue shirts. And we walk with pride be Brady.

Imbi: Yes, beautiful. But I found that when our story broke, and when I spoke a bit publicly about what had happened to myself and how I made that call. I had a conversation with my kids and my sister particularly and a couple of other friends. Because their inclination was to say to me, you know, why didn't you ring? Why didn't you reach out and yet, there was a lot of understanding, you know, and it was terribly hard for my husband, but we'd had this weekend where and the details not really important, but I call it one with a lot a bit like when you go to McDonald's, every single thing went wrong. It was it was and then even more fries, it was just all the cards just came raining down. And I couldn't lift my head to reach out to any of them. I just wanted to go down. And that's why I reached out to anonymous service to help me. I remember being really curious, because I didn't know what they were going to say I just knew I was terrified because of what I was going to do.

Danny: And as you're saying there, we sort of found that people did come up to you and say, we're so sorry, we didn't know, it was this bad. You know, they knew Brady was sort of having these issues, but they didn't know how bad his issues were sort of thing. And they're apologising to us all the thing. So yeah, we're sort of

Imbi: Dealing with your own grid. Yeah, I guess you get everyone else.

Darcy: We hope you're enjoying this episode. Lifeline’s new support toolkit makes it easier to care for family, friends and loved ones, and look after yourself along the way, visit us at toolkit.lifeline.org.au. Now back to the episode.

Imbi: So before the impact of suicide hit your family, Danny, what would you have thought about a person going through this sort of thing?

Danny: I’d probably think of a homeless person, someone who may be fighting their alcohol problems or drugs, or domestic violence sort of thing? Probably around that sort of area sort of thing. I sort of didn't think I'd run back into like, young boy, 14 year old, I didn't think you'd have that many problems to worry about at that stage of life sort of thing. But like full of four year like more the homeless people.

Imbi: And when you really read about who's suicide has impacted and who has taken their life by suicide, it's shocking. In aged care, Danny, we have lost quite a few elderly residents to suicide, and particularly through the COVID pandemic. And that's been really shocking, really sad. Services like lifeline are for all so, you know, to just make that call if you can, or do that text, or just reach out for help, but it's easier said than done. As I said before, I think the saddest truth is that when you need to put your hand up is when you don't. It’s so hard to recognise those signs if they're not outwardly showing. Yeah, you know, probably. And I'm sure I'm an example of this, people would think, how could you have felt like that? And yet I did.

Danny: Yeah, yeah. But also now, you sort of think about it, and you have a look around society. Now, you also see, like our first responders, and all that sort of stuff. So we were involved with a project up at home, where we painted some trees blue, as to give people sort of a conversation starter about their mental health and stuff like that. And we collaborated with the local fire and eSFR fire brigade, because they had their issues, because mental health and stuff like that, and the local police, and they are involved with painting these trees sort of thing. And it sort of brought the community together to start talking about it. As I say, if you had a broken foot or something like that, you're walking down the street, someone would say to you, oh, you're sick, or you've hurt yourself. But a person with mental health could be walking down the same street, right behind that person laughingly said to those people, because we don't know that they're having those issues. So it's good to be out there and probably try and start conversations with people that you don't know, break a bit of ice, and just have a bit of a conversation people.

Imbi: I think so. And I think it's about the non judgement. Now, you know, you look at you never know what someone's going through. And I also, you never know the difference you can make by starting the conversation, you know, that cartoon of the iceberg? Yes, you know, so there's this match at the top, but there's all the that you don't know. And sometimes, you know, people put on their happy smiley face. But underneath, there's a lot of sadness there. Yeah. So I think it's not a gift to be given it, but the knowledge that those low points can be reached. And if you've experienced yourself, or at the very worst, which is what you and Jack had losing your beautiful boy, it it just shows you it can happen to anyone and any family, a very loved boy, beautiful boy that's very loved and supported. And yet, that still happens.

Danny: And we work in the Department of Education sort of thing. So we do see now, a lot more students, younger students that are struggling with their mental health sort of thing. So we sort of need to be there for them, and sort of guide them through different things that can help them sort of thing, but as we said, doesn't discriminate against anyone.

Imbi: getting men to talk about it. I know that my husband, you know, and trying to say yes. And I think there's a lot of work that needs to be done. All sorts.

Ruben: What are the stigmas attached to suicide, around the types of people with thinking effects?

Danny: I'm sort of thinking for the people who that stigma, we need to be able to get it across to education with like, so they can understand that there is help out there for them. So we can get that across the wide community. They don't feel a lot of people think there's nowhere for them to turn. But I think if we can keep doing things like this, what we're doing now are prevention walks and awareness walks. I think hopefully the message will get across to our people who have our communities and say that there is people there to help them. Let us all come together as one.

Imbi: That makes perfect sense and a stigma about being ashamed. There's no shame. There's absolutely no shame. There's no shame in reaching out. There's no, in fact, there's pride. There's enormous pride and courage to be able to say me too, like the me to movement. If it happens to you, it's okay. But there is help out there. And there is hope. And I wear this necklace. It reads fate whispered to the worrier. You cannot withstand the storm. And the worrier whispers back I am the storm. And I was explaining that anger for a long time held me steady. Not that anger is a particularly helpful emotion. But it's an emotion that sometimes keeps you in the space. And then when that anger dissipates and there's no hope is when you can really go on. And I remind myself that in a storm that storm passes, and I wish I could say to Brady and to everyone. The storm will pass and it will sit on a stick where I think that exists with suicide, Danny is that it's mostly young people and perhaps not men, but there are many men. And there are older people that are choosing to die by suicide. And I think that's a stigma that needs addressing, because that's not the case. And it can be a mother. It can be a young man, it can be someone on the street, a professional person they think, no, that would never happen to you. But those stigmas I think need to be broken down that however it looks and however we might present, we can end up in the same place literally saying that goodness for Lifeline. I love the word Lifeline, because Lifeline is what it does, it gives a lifeline.

Danny: Yeah. And in my personal as an indigenous person, I have found in my culture that it's probably pretty prominent to, like suicide, it is out there sort of thing. And particularly as you said, we have more men who can express themselves and maybe have a conversation with someone, they keep it bottled up inside them, and just balls away. And until sometimes it's too late for them to turn around and get that help.

Imbi: Has there been shame to Danny, have you seen that in your community?

Danny: I wouldn't say so much shame. I just think…

Imbi: Sadness, sadness.

Danny: Yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you do see a lot of people walking around. Yeah, you might walk past them, they put that smile, and then they walk away. And then they sort of come back down. Yeah, very sad.

Imbi: And the sadness, because the reasons if there is a reason are very different. They are very multifaceted with lots of different driving factors.

Ruben: Imbi, what were some of the thoughts and physical and emotional feelings you were having in your time of crisis?

Imbi: When I reached my lowest point, I was in a car. And I pulled over into McDonald's. Funnily enough, we're talking about when with a lot. But rather than buy the fries and the thick shake, I sat in the car park panicking, and what I felt in my body, I remember shaking like a leaf. And I remember feeling incredibly confused. And I didn't actually understand what was happening to me. And I remember feeling so panicked. And I remember thinking the only thing I haven't tried to reach out to anyone to help me is Lifeline. So I remember ringing with almost a sense of curiosity, and absolute last hope. Yeah, in my head, I remember thinking, this is all I've got left. I could not think of one reason to keep leaving, to even want to keep living. And I all I wanted was a reason. So I rang the number and they put me on hold as what happens because there's a lot of people ringing. And I remember going in my head, that's okay. I'll just wait. And when the lady answered my call, I remember I was crying. And I remember saying to her, my story is too big. And I don't know where to start. Because my story was big. It was a story that really had been coming in our family for six years, we've been going down this horrendous path. What I felt was such relief when she said to me the details don't matter. She just sat with me and my pain. I said, I can't explain. I can't explain. And she said, don't explain. And she just sat with me. So and I do remember as the call went on, feeling calmer. Yeah. She was exceptionally good at her job. And relieved, and we made this amazing plan. And I remember getting off the call, crying again. But I knew what I had to do, Danny, and what I had to do was start my car. Drive home. Yeah. I always say that Lifeline got me home. Yeah, they got me home.

Danny: Yeah, a few times of ourselves. Like, we could be driving to work sort of thing and just little things might trigger off a bit of a memory sort of thing. Like their song, like come on the radio. Like, the big song that really triggers me is Christine Anu, My island home.

Imbi: Oh my goodness, that's a beautiful song.

Danny: So as soon as I hear that, I, I start to yeah, I lose a little bit. But my sort of safe haven places I go to the beach, to some very love the water. I love water been indigenous, our title is a dolphin. So that connection with the ocean sort of thing. And that's my current place. And that's where we go this will take five, regroup ourselves, and then continue on sort of thing. Yeah.

Imbi: And do you recognise Danny when you need to do that? Obviously, like, just something that hits you and you just need to go? Yeah, and yeah, yeah. And do you like to be by yourself then?

Danny: I do. Although I do like to go with Jac to because it's important to be together and support each other sort of thing. So we'll have a son too. It's good. Just if we can all be there. That's nice. Yeah,

Imbi: My island home I will always think of you.

Ruben: Danny, who were the people that helped and gave you strength?

Danny: People that probably helped us along our journey. If I can say it is a journey, our family and friends and that they were always there for us no matter what time it was. We've just jumped on the phone or whatever. And there will be there'll be and support us in no matter what we've done. And they still support us now in their walks and other things in life and that sort of thing. So without them, I don't know where we will be sort of thing. Now that we've been involved with Lifeline, we've done all walks and painted up a surfboard and raised a bit of money for them last year, I've sort of come close to a couple of people from Newcastle Lifeline and always ring out and we catch up with a coffee and all that sort of thing. So it's good just to have those people to bounce off every now and then. And I've got friends, yeah, we don't leave on each other's doorstep. But if I've got a problem, I know that they only ever in their final sort of thing.

Imbi: I’m part of the Lifeline’s lived experience advisory group, and there's been so much support within that as well. And what I've learned to listening to everyone's stories and experiences lived in living and lost through suicide. There's wonderful support there. And that evolves in time, but there's always someone to reach out to. Yeah, and…

Danny: And also our sporting groups that the boys were involved with. They are like a big family to us to sort of thing, so they're keen to help our

Imbi: Community is incredibly important.

Danny Yeah, yeah. Yes. It says, Yeah, raise a child myself, but you've got the community to help you sort of feeling like you've been feeling Yeah. Yeah, we've got a good village to be honest.

Darcy: Imbi what have you learned through your experience now, that's helped you cope on difficult days?

Imbi: I think just go gently, Danny, go gently with others, my husband, for example, but also go really gently with myself, I was my own worst enemy for years. Being the mum, I saw myself as a person that was holding our family strong. And when I failed, which I epically failed that weekend. And when I felt that I was in charge of managing everyone and keeping my son well, and managing the appointments, and keeping my husband and recognising that I am really vulnerable too and understanding about the whole self-care thing. I know, that's an overused term, but incredibly important. Yeah. And I've also learned through my physical health, that you I've just got to look after myself, because we're really loved and needed, and valuable. So I've learned to do that. And I'm still a work in progress. It's hard to say no to opportunities, and it's hard to perhaps manage the stress, but that I'm trying really hard. I’ll figure I'll never stop learning. Yeah, I'll keep trying.

Danny: And have you found that people may have said to you once or twice, you got to be able to help yourself first, before you can help anyone?

Imbi: Oh, isn't that true? The whole oxygen mask first. And look, I think it's great advice. And then as a parent, it's easier said than done. It’s hard to juggle all the balls hold it all steady. But I think I've learned to do that a bit better. I'd like to ask you, Danny that just on a normal day, whatever normal is, what do you do to manage the really tough days? The tough the anniversaries? Are they difficult?

Danny: Obviously, yeah, the anniversaries are very hard. And birthdays, of course, just a couple of weeks ago, it was Brady's 50th anniversary sort of thing. And then in a couple more weeks, it's gonna be here, it'd be his 20th Birthday sort of thing. So those things. It's good, I think, to try and surround ourselves with family and friends. As I said, with his anniversary, just happened to be around made off day sort of thing. And that's when Brady took his own life was around Naloxone sort of thing. So all around family and community. So it was good to be able to celebrate that, because we knew Brady would have been so excited to share that we have a sort of thing. So I think yeah, just being with family and friends, and try and be positive about it. Just be there for each other, be there for my wife and my other boy. Yeah.

Ruben: If you could give one piece of advice to someone who was facing that darkest moment. What would that be?

Danny: Don't give up. There's people there to help you just take you out. Ask us for help.

Imbi: Mine would be if you there's no hope, there's a beautiful expression that is not mine. It's a lovely friend of mine. Dave said this where he said that if you have no hope, I will hold it for you. And you have Yeah. So hold on to your hope. The hope there the storm will pass.

Danny Imbi, was there any judgement or shame with the experience of suicide that you have occurred?

Imbi: Only my own? Yeah. I think I had a few people, my kids particularly my beautiful sister, not question me but was so sad when they found out I'd reached that point and what had happened to me, but not judgement just enormous. sadness, sadness. And with my son, there was absolute empathy. And dare I say, a commonality that we had both experienced that incredibly the lowest of low points. So I was very lucky. So I judged myself, Danny, very badly, I think. And that sense of failure, that changed for me to feel a sense of pride.

Danny: And with that, did you think your family reactions now have sort of changed, how they see it?

Imbi: Yeah, yeah. And their enormous fears of Lifeline. And they're very supportive of the work that I do in the space. And they're really proud I'm here today. And that means an awful lot. I worry sometimes that in my kids world, there might be a stigma for them, you know, that's your mom or whatever. But, and I actually express that concern, and my son's said, That's ridiculous. Yeah, don't even go there. So I'm very, very grateful for that. But I think a lot of that is to do with Lifeline as an organisation, to be honest, Danny, looking to the future for you. And for Jac, what's next for you?

Danny: In the future for us, I think is to be able to get the word across to people right across our whole community, that there is help out there, don't be ashamed of it, please ask for help. Try and bring everyone together as one with our involvement at school and work. Now we work with the kids. And so we're trying to teach them the rights and wrongs sort of thing. Be kind, it's that simple sort of thing. And that's what it boils down to. It's that simple, just to be kind doesn't hurt to say hello to anyone walking down the street or ask how they're going. So I think yeah, just push on like that. And keep pushing that, that point across. Yeah. And yourself.

Imbi: I think dig deep, some hard conversations, you know, and, and to, for me, personally, I want to continue working and contributing in the space as long as they want me. And as long as I can effectively do that, I think, to spread the word that there are, there's Lifeline, there are good support services out there. And that to get people to understand that we all sadly are vulnerable. And if we can recognise that earlier, or recognise that vulnerability in someone else, to save your life, or to get people to reach out, then yeah, yeah. So that's what's next for me. Danny, I'm just completely humbled by meeting you and getting the chance to talk to you. And it really has been such an honour and all I can do is say thank you, I can't imagine the pain and walking in your shoes. I'm just so grateful that you and your beautiful family and your community are trying so hard to bring some light and some hope to other families so that they don't have to endure the pain and the suffering that you have. And I just want to say again, how proud your beautiful Brandy must be. I feel very privileged to have met you and sat with you in this space.

Danny: And Imbi also with you too to feel honoured to be here with you today. And you're telling me your story about you and your boy and what you've gone through and your ongoing battle still sort of thing. And you want to be proud of what you're doing now and continue on with the good work. Thanks. And in my language, I'd like to say marabu gembe by which burns Thank you, friend.

Imbi: Thank you friend.

Ruben: As we conclude this episode of holding on to hope, remember, you're never alone in your struggles. These conversations remind us of the power and reaching out and standing united as a community. This is Ruben Mackellar signing off. Until next time, hold on to hope.

Darcy: Thanks for listening to Holding on to hope the podcast. Lifeline is grateful to all holding on to hope participants for choosing to share their personal lived experiences openly and courageously. In order to offer hope and inspiration to others. Your act of kindness makes for a better world. And remember, you don't have to struggle because toolkit.lifeline.org.au today.