Darcy (0:00)

We acknowledge the lives lost to suicide and recognise those who have survived suicide attempts. And those who struggle today or in the past with thoughts of suicide, mental health issues and crisis situations. We acknowledge all those who have felt the deep impact of suicide, including those who love, care and support people experiencing suicidality and those experiencing the pain and bereavement through suicide. We respect collaboration with people who have a lived or living experience of suicide and mental health issues and value their contribution to the work we do. 

Joanna (0:32)

A couple of times where I called quite easily because after that first one, I was like, I know that these people are going to be there for me. They're going to hold space, and I'm going to feel safe.

Darcy (0:44)

Welcome to Holding on to Hope, the series that shares the stories of everyday Australians that have experienced moments in crisis and found a path to support. Whilst all of the stories shared of hope and inspiration. At times you may hear something you find triggering, if you or someone you know needs crisis support, please phone lifeline on 1311 14 Text 0477 1311 14 or visit lifeline.org.au for lifeline chat service, which is 24/7.

Ruben (1:17)

Welcome to Lifeline’s podcast Holding on to Hope. I'm your host Ruben Mackellar. Today, we're honoured to have Joanna as our guest sharing her journey of resilience from teenage struggles with depression, anxiety, and suicidal thoughts to finding hope and healing in our 50s. Joanna's story began with challenges in her early teens, including the loss of her mother and her own battles with mental health issues. At 24, the suicide of her stepbrother was a turning point, leading her to seek support from Lifeline and professional help. Reflecting on her experiences, Joanna her credits Lifeline but saving her life multiple times and emphasises the importance of self-care in managing mental health. She now advocates for others, sharing her story to let them know that they're not alone in their struggle.

Joanna, thank you so much for joining us today, I'd like to invite you to share whatever you're comfortable in doing so about your teenage years. 

Joanna (2:10) 

My teenage years, I think we're probably to start off with quite normal, as in, you know, hormones. And when the hormones started for me, and as a girl and started menstruating, I immediately started having a weird mental health imbalance thing happening. Which I didn't actually understand that was what it was at the time. I now understand that in hindsight, it would be diagnosed as PMDD. Because every two weeks, I would have anxiety and depression, and to some degree, some suicidal ideation and words, I didn't know back then. But I was just like a little bit confused where I was thinking of killing myself when I was 13-14 when I started menstruating. So I kind of quickly learned how to kind of work through that because I was also you know, at a high school where I was specialising in theatre, arts and dance. And so I just acted through it, like everything was okay. And I continue doing this when by the time I got to 15, my dad got really sick and ended up in hospital and almost died. And just as he was out of intensive care, my mum got sick, and then she actually died. So I had this really full-on Year 11 where I thought I was losing my dad, and my mum and I had made plans. And then he suddenly like a phoenix rose from the ashes. And my mum got sick and died very quickly. And so I lost my best friend and my mother and was then at home looking after my father. And this combined with the hormones, again, hindsight and massive grief, I think led to you know, worsened mental health issues. 

Ruben (3:42)

Could you share how these feelings of suicidality affected your other aspects of your everyday routine?

Joanna (3:48)

They affected everything. I think if anybody's telling you anything different then they're probably lying, because they're trying to keep up the good face. Because you know, when it comes to work, I mean, even now even though we're supposed to be able to talk about how we're feeling mentally, you don't tend to tell everything to employers in case they doubt you. I didn't know how to communicate about it first of all, I just knew that I was in some sort of mental hell. I lost a lot of work, I quit or got fired from a lot of jobs because I was not reliable. I spent a lot of time outside of work because I actually couldn't even deal with the responsibility. It was too overwhelming and too stressful to deal with these voices telling me to kill myself while I'm you know, doing customer service somewhere. The shame was massive in relationships as well. I didn't have any understanding of how to speak to people. It wasn't modelled to me, you know, like, it was modelled to me how to be a good waitress or how to be a good daughter or how to do certain things in society. But I didn't understand that emotional literacy was part of the key to help me to work through the stuff in my head. It just kind of felt like a lot of the time there's some sort of horror movie like playing in your head and you can't escape it. So yeah, it affected absolutely everything.

Ruben (5:04)

What were the significant impacts of dealing with suicidal thoughts on your mental and emotional wellbeing?

Joanna (5:10)

My withdrawal from people was massive. And I think about how authentic I am now. And I think a lot of relationships were destroyed because people didn't know what was going on with me. The shame was absolutely massive. And I used to try really hard not to cry in public all the time, I used to cry a lot. And then I got myself so well trained at not crying that I had trouble crying because of the acting. One of the impacts was in order for me to actually express myself and get through some grief I used to watch certain movies that would make me cry, the movie would finish and I'd spend like an hour weeping somewhere. And I would do it silently, because I would often be living with people and I was so ashamed that I was even crying, like just experiencing those emotions. I then would have emotions about the emotion. And it was just like non-stop self-sourcing hideousness.

Ruben (6:03)

At what point did you realise that you needed support for your suicidal thoughts or feelings.

Joanna (6:08)

My father remarried soon after my mother died because he was lonely and I inherited a step-family and I inherited a stepbrother, who was exactly the same age as me. And in our 24th year, we were both battling mental illness really, really badly. He decided to kill himself. And that moment of finding out that he was dead, looking around at the impact that that had on our family, and his friends, and even my friends, seeing how that impacted me. And the community at large. And that was a wake up moment for me to go, ‘If I end my life, I'm going to hurt people who love me,’ because that had never occurred to me before. And I remember my stepbrother talking about the fact that he thought everybody would be better off if he was dead. And it wasn't till he died that I realised that that's actually not correct. That was the moment it was a very big slap from the universe, I suddenly realised that my pain could mess up other people's lives that had never occurred to me. So that's when I went, ‘Okay, what do I have to do?’ And bizarrely, I didn’t just go and see a counsellor or a psychologist, I just immediately went, ‘Hold on, this is beyond talking stuff. I feel like there's something else going on.’ Like my intuition was really good. I need to go to see a psychiatrist. Not only had I been suffering, I thought that it was my fault that I was suffering.

Darcy (7:34)

We hope you're enjoying this episode, Lifeline’s new Support Toolkit makes it easier to care for family, friends and loved ones, and look after yourself along the way, visit us at toolkit.lifeline.org.au. Now, back to the episode.

Ruben (7:52)

Can you tell us about what led you to call Lifeline and what was your experience?

Joanna (7:56)

So it was posy by stepbrother’s death. And it was at a point where even though I was seeing a psychiatrist, I couldn't talk about it with most people I knew because of the stigma. And people made fun of me, my even my father made fun of me. I kept having crises even though I was on and off medication. And because I was young, and I just didn't know what I was doing. I had a lot of trouble sleeping normal hours, which is really normal for people with depression and anxiety and suicidal ideation. And of course, all of that stuff is worse at about two o'clock in the morning or three o'clock in the morning. And so that's the times when I would actually call Lifeline because there wasn't anything out there. But Lifeline still had ads on TV back then. But more to the point I knew about them, because someone that I went to high school with, their parent volunteered for them. And I had asked that parent about what sort of calls they'd gotten. They had told me about that, this many years before and that had stuck with me. And I was like, I think that I could call them and I wouldn't have to deal with the judgement hopefully. There was a couple of times where I called quite easily because after that first one, I was like, I know that these people are going to be there for me. They're going to hold space, and I'm going to feel safe.

Ruben (9:01)

What would you say was your biggest hurdle in taking that crucial first step towards getting help?

Joanna (9:05)

Shame and stigma. And also just not knowing, you know, the fear of not knowing what's going to happen? Anything that I'd seen on any media up till then in movies, you know, anything to do with mental health stuff is really misrepresented in many, many movies. It's better now. But in the 80s, it was really, really bad. So you know, there was part of me that was really scared of being locked up. That was the biggest hurdle.

Ruben (9:30)

How did you go about finding the support you needed when dealing with suicidality and what resources were most beneficial for you?

Joanna (9:36)

I think my main support has been a friend who I made in my 30s. He was a counsellor at the time, but he's actually my best friend now. And it wasn't that he counselled me it was that he was safe to be around, you know, he had empathy for what was going on. And when I was feeling suicidal, I could tell him that that was happening. And then I needed to not be alone, but I didn't want to talk about it. And there aren't many people, back then, there are more now, but in my thirties, where someone would actually go, okay, cool, come and stay with me so you're not alone. But he wouldn't treat me like I was fragile or hysterical or whatever, you know, once people who don't understand it. And another tool that really helped me was has been medication on and off. But I really want to stress to anybody listening, that medication is not the end all and be all, it's just one of the tools that helps. You know, it helped me with turning down the volume of suicidal ideation at different times, or turning down the volume on anxiety or help with less depression, but often it also just deadened other emotions. These are the main things that I was looking for at the time. So that was regular professional help, having a really close friend, toolbox, and stuff like medication.

Ruben (10:54)

In terms of behaviour and mindset changes, what specific actions did you do to cope with suicidal thoughts or emotions?

Joanna (11:01)

I realised that I wouldn't be safe by myself, but I didn't want to particularly focus on it. So I knew when to put myself in other people's company where it was safe. One of the things that did help was more like acceptance and commitment therapy (ACT). So like, everybody goes on and on about mindfulness. But I guess that's kind of what it was for me. But I didn't find meditation useful. I remember discovering, at some point in my late 30s, that the best meditation for me was being in nature. And I remember learning that during or after a really bad crisis. And I was just lying on the lawn with my dog and looking up and watching clouds and realising that that was such a beautiful thing that I love doing for fun as a child, and it kept me in the moment, and it stopped yucky thoughts from happening. That was something that I changed in my mindset is when I realised that when my head was too full of evil, yucky stuff, that nature and animals, were the best things to keep me in the moment.

Ruben (11:56)

Are there any specific self care strategies or things that you do that you have found particularly effective in managing your mental health?

Joanna (12:05)

One of the things that helps me with self-care and you'll find this probably with a lot of people who have had mental illness, that healing with humour is massive for me. So sometimes I use it to even click myself into self-care. Every time monster trucks come to town, they have these adverts where this guy's doing this, ‘Monster trucks, you know, monster trucks, extreme plan, blah, blah, blah.’ And I use it like, okay, if my head is going mad, I go, ‘Okay, time for so I'm for extreme self-care. Buy myself some self-care.’ To make myself laugh, and it always works. And the moment that I do that, and then I laugh at that. I know that I have to, I've said the nature and the animals in the exercise. Yeah. Anything that that makes you laugh.

Ruben (12:45)

How are you doing now Joanna? And what steps do you take to address these triggers and maintain your wellbeing on a regular basis. 

Joanna (12:53)

So I’m doing well now. But it doesn't mean that I don't have occasional suicidal ideation. But now because of many colleagues that I've worked with, and I'm in my mid-50s, and despite menopause, it hasn't got worse. When my suicidal ideation comes up now, there's no need for panic for me. I actually see it as, a colleague said that she got a brain tumour and what it did wherever it was pressing on her brain, it arcs up her suicidal ideation. She's always had it. And she said, instead of like, going into a fight or flight thing that which often happens when you have suicidal ideation, she would just calmly breathe and say, ‘No, I don't want to die, but something in my life has to die.’ So I do that now because for me, suicidal ideation is a little tap on my shoulder. So that comes up and I kind of go, ‘Okay, let's look at my self-care, what’s not working for me? How's my diet? How's the company I'm keeping, you know, what's everything? What's not working for me?’ And I can normally pick it out pretty fast. So yeah, I feel really pleased with myself. That's no longer impulsive.

Ruben (13:55)

What would be your message of hope for someone listening who is currently struggling? 

Joanna (14:00)

Someone like me is proof that you can make it. You can make it through the darkness. Because I've been there I lived there. The other  the things that I would like people to know is that self-knowledge and self-compassion are vital. As is a secure support system. That might be online, that might be your dog, it doesn't matter. Just find where you feel safe. Also know the little things matter. Little day-to-day things matter. Like, how you like your cup of tea, having a chat with the checkout chick that you know, that could make your day, but I think finally, the biggest thing that I'd want people to know is that you are not alone. And you matter.

Ruben (14:40)

Thank you so much for the time and for being on the Holding on to Hope podcast, we really do appreciate it.

Joanna (14:47)

Thank you.

Darcy (14:48)

Thanks for listening to Holding on to Hope, the podcast. Lifeline is grateful to all Holding on to Hope participants for choosing to share their personal lived experiences openly and courageously. In order to offer hope and inspiration to others. Your act of kindness makes for a better world. And remember, you don't have to struggle, visit toolkit.lifeline.org.au today.