Note: this transcript has been edited for clarity, grammar, and flow.

Darcy (Host):
[00:00:00] Welcome to "Holding on to Hope," a series that shares the stories of everyday Australians that have experienced moments in crisis and found a path to support. Whilst all of the stories shared offer hope and inspiration, at times you may hear something you find triggering. If you or someone you know needs crisis support, please phone Lifeline on 13 11 14, text 0477 13 11 14, or visit lifeline.org.au for Lifeline chat service, which is 24/7.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:00:32] Today's guest is Rochelle, founder of the fashion label Rocky Rafaela, a brand born from resilience, creativity, and an extraordinary journey of survival. From a young age, Rochelle experienced significant trauma and struggled with feeling misunderstood and alone. As a teenager, she faced severe mental health challenges, including addiction, eating disorders, self-harm, and multiple suicide attempts, spending long periods in hospital care. A turning point came when she reconnected with creativity. Through design, she found a way to express her pain, rebuild her identity, and imagine a different future. Today, Rochelle uses her work to transform life's experiences and emotions into purpose, helping others feel seen, empowered, and confident. Rochelle, welcome to the studio.

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:01:21] Thanks for having me.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:01:23] So much is going on for you at the moment. You've just shown your work at the Melbourne Fashion Festival. You've released a movie, "The Rise of Rocky."

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:01:31] Yeah.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:01:32] What did it feel like watching that runway show? Who did you think you were? What was going through your mind? What did it feel like?

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:01:38] Well, it was like a mix of feelings, okay? Because there was one part of me that was it was almost surreal. That little girl, in rehab or the psych wards, like wanting a different life, would never have pictured this moment. So it was a surreal feeling, but it was a very proud moment. I just kept thinking of the younger version of myself. And then the other part was there were so many friends, family, best friends, people that experienced my past with me. And I've held a lot of guilt for putting a lot of people in those, situations of finding me the way they did and just really, really dark stuff. So seeing them, in the audience and coming out was like also an amazing feeling because they've been through the journey with me. So yeah, it was more about celebrating transformation.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:02:35] Yeah, what an incredible feeling to have them all there with you on such a great moment? And your label, Rocky Rafaela, nice little plug there too, has been described as a universe, a place of strength and escape. Can you describe what that means to you in your everyday life, too, and what role your creativity plays in keeping you well?

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:02:57] So I started Rocky Rafaela as a world to escape to. Rocky is the strength and the power and that unstoppable force behind the brand. And Rafaela is the healing, the creative flow, the artistic approach to the brand. So it's like the yin to the yang. So together it creates like the Rocky Rafaela universe of the brand's DNA. When I started the brand, creativity was healing for me. So when I was able to express myself through art, I built a lot with my hands and other people at uni were looking up to other designers, but I was creating from an emotion and I was creating cages and mazes with my hands. And it was kind of like the building was like somatic healing in a way. And I was able to redirect the pain that I was going through.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:03:57] So to understand how far you've come now, you're in this amazing universe of strength and creativity. I'd like to go back to the beginning.

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:04:04] Yeah.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:04:04] So growing up, you experienced some trauma. You felt like you didn't fit in and weren't understood at school. What did that feel like from the inside? What did you feel that you needed that you weren't getting?

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:04:16] I felt like as I was growing up and as I became more of who I was, that person was being rejected. So I went to school and I couldn't learn. It was basically like I went to a class in Spain or something like I just couldn't understand simple tasks. My brain would switch off. I later learned that that was from some trauma that happened earlier on. Like my first sexual experience was one where I didn't know what was happening. It created a lot of confusion and uncomfortability, which I later learned was sexual abuse.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:04:56] Yeah.

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:04:56] So I wasn't learning at school. Then, as you start kissing boys, I was also kissing girls. And so, I started exploring that. And then I was like told that that was disgusting. And then basically I felt like everything I was doing was being rejected, alienated or met with hate. And the more I grew up, I just felt like I almost had to suppress who I was.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:05:22] Yeah.

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:05:23] One thing I was good at was I had a lot of friends and I dived into the party culture because I was accepted. I was like a class clown. I was funny. Everyone loved me. Like that's where I got my purpose. So the more we started to go out, that's when I was like, oh, drugs, alcohol. Yes, it was another part of me, but I still didn't feel accepted.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:05:48] There's a lot going on there for you. Was there something that you felt you needed that you weren't getting that would have helped at that time?

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:05:56] Yeah, I would say my parents never really understood what was happening with me. And we are best friends now. I love them so much and we openly speak about this, but they weren't able to be there in the way that I needed.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:06:14] Yeah.

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:06:15] So they blamed drugs, they blamed alcohol, but that obviously wasn't the problem. They were my symptoms and what I would do to cope with the pain. So they almost had that mentality of kick you while you're down. But they were worried. They were scared. They didn't know how to deal with a sick daughter. It got so bad. I can only imagine what it was like for them. Like I was in hospitals most weekends and they were always angry and it made me worse. But then they really weren't coping, but they didn't know how. Mental health wasn't that understood back then. Now they get everything. It's a different story, but yeah, it took a lot of time. So I think it's really important for parents to look past, the symptoms that their child could be doing that might be looked at as bad behaviour because there's always an underlying issue. Like the deeper you go.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:07:11] Yeah, it's a lot for parents to process and they want the best for their kid, but to go to that deeper level, it's a hard ask.

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:07:21] Yeah.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:07:21] And you mentioned as a teenager, you also face rejection about your sexuality. That kind of layering of trauma and learning difficulties and fitting in can make a young person feel very alone. What was the weight of all that to carry? What was that like?

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:07:40] I turned it all inward on myself. So I had that mentality of okay, if the world hates me, well, I hate me too. And that's when it turned really bad. It was like a click. It was like I went from this fun party girl with all these friends. I mean, I always had that aspect, but then the darkness took over. And you got to remember, I had so many bad beliefs about myself. So these are all in the stages of life where the beliefs that you cement are going to affect you later on in life because our beliefs are what drive all of our lives. So unconsciously, what we believe will control our emotions, our thoughts, and then our behaviours into our reality. And that's why my beliefs were mirroring me in my reality. So I obviously believed I was a monster. I believed I was dumb. I believed that, I shouldn't be gay. I was labelled with all these things. It was like disorder, disorder. Everything I did, they gave me a name for. So I started to feel like I was crazy, rejected. The sexual experience made me believe the world was unsafe. So that was another belief I gave myself. So I would feel and have thoughts that would create these destructive behaviours. So, hanging out with the wrong people. I wrote off my parents' car like 60 metres into a golf course to the point where I pulled myself out of the window. The car was completely gone, not a scratch on me, and just went home.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:09:23] It's so amazing to sit here and hear about the universe that you've created for yourself and the success. It's an amazing story to tell and really useful for people and parents to hear that there is hope, right? That amazing things can come out of these situations that people find themselves in in their younger lives. And you mentioned when you were a teenager, alcohol and other drugs were things that you used to feel better about yourself and to socialise. But over time, that escalated for you.

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:09:58] Yeah.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:09:58] Without, going into things you don't want to talk about, can you describe what that period felt like?

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:10:05] Yeah.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:10:06] What you were running from what you were looking for?

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:10:09] So these became coping mechanisms that, were very destructive and they were so addictive, I couldn't give them up. So the drugs weren't a problem without the alcohol. So they came hand in hand. Self-harm was a huge one. Every time I felt a certain way, I would self-harm. That was a behaviour that, yeah, it's if you think about it, no one should have that as a behaviour. I didn't know how else to be. Like I was learning these myself and I didn't really know or understand, what was happening. They were just the way I would kind of silence the pain.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:10:50] So it sounds like a really intense period of time for you.

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:10:54] Yeah, I had this intensity and power, but nowhere to direct it. The same fire that destroyed my life later built my success.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:11:05] So you've spent some time in hospital, including in a high-security psychiatric ward. Must have been a really difficult time. Did anyone really see you for you there?

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:11:17] In this particular situation, no. I remember this was one of my most traumatic experiences. And this goes with what I said, my belief about being a monster drove me to act like one. And I remember like home was a very painful place. I remember how I got into this high-security psych ward. Home was a very painful place. So I was running. I was taking a lot of drugs and I was, living on people's couches. I just was living this destructive life. And I got taken to hospital. I was connected to wires. It was like an overdose. It was like so many things happened all at once. I didn't want to be there. And because I was pulling all the wires off me and acting quite erratic, they put me in this high-security psych ward, which I should never have been in. It was basically like a glass dome with very sick people, and I was in with five people who were very sick. And I just shouldn't have been there for erratic behaviour because nurses sit around and they watch you. I felt like a monster. I felt like a caged animal. But through feeling this and because you're not allowed anything, it's almost like you're staring at a wall for days. And I was in there for four days and no one knew what to do with me. I watched my dad walk away and leave me there. And to this day, I even asked him a couple of years ago, like, why did you leave me there? And he said, we didn't know what to do with you. Like I was so unmanageable at that point. However, this experience then later was expressed in my first collection called Caged. And that was creating cages and mazes with my hands to express this feeling of trapped and caged like an animal. It was kind of it was kind of cool how it all played out in a way. I mean, we're talking about turning pain into power. And ironically, creating these cages is what freed me. Sometimes art is the evidence that healing has happened.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:13:39] What a fantastic story of creativity, right? Turning a really hard moment into something that was the start of your career. Amazing. So you've talked about a turning point, finally receiving consistent support, reconnecting with that amazing creativity that you have. What was that support? What did it look like? What made it different from what had come before?

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:14:03] So after this experience, I was having up to five hours of therapy a day. And that was because I was so badly wired that one of my behaviours was driving me, whether it was my eating disorder, whether it was self-harm, whether it was drinking. Like I couldn't stop. I was in this loop of self-destruction. So we had to find me some purpose. We had to find who I was before the world told me, you're a failure.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:14:37] And that the world is unsafe.

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:14:38] And the world's unsafe. So can you see how, my beliefs were creating a reality that confirmed who I thought I was? So it's all about how we see ourselves and how we identify ourselves. So now I can see I was creating all of this, but back then I didn't see that. I was having a lot of therapy a day and I was seeing a life coach and I really gelled with her, which was great because I could be open and vulnerable. So I was at the time like hanging off the edge of my chair, barely looking at her. And she said, what do you want to do with your life? It was the first time I directly looked at her in the eyes and I sat up and I said, anything but this.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:15:27] Oh, wow.

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:15:28] So I wanted to change. I just simply did not know how. Through all the darkness and hours of conversations with the help from her, I started to see that I was creative through the dark fog because I didn't think I was good at anything. I didn't remember I was creative. Can you see how this darkness just took over my whole brain? And so as we started to work through things, I remembered, oh, I remember I made that top for that party in high school. I remember I loved painting and art and all these memories came up and I was always making clothes. So all of a sudden I enrolled in fashion school and that's when my life completely changed.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:16:16] That dark fog lifted.

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:16:18] It gave me a purpose and a new path to go down. I knew it was never going to be a straightforward path, but it was another option of something that excited me. So I enrolled in Whitehouse Institute of Design.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:16:37] You found in design a language for things that you couldn't say in words. Can you take us into that moment when you first realised that making something was also healing something?

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:16:48] Yeah, absolutely. So fashion to me became my own emotional language. I remember for the first time I was just so in the zone. I was manipulating fabrics. I was sculpting. I was so in the moment and my mind just went quiet when I designed. And that was unheard of with everything I had going on. And when you experience so much trauma, your nervous system is so out of whack. You're always in survival mode and you always feel like you're under attack. I still go through it now. However, everything relaxed when I designed. My body, my mind, I was like, yeah, wow, this is my medicine.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:17:38] So that quiet space was something unusual for you, but not scary. It was lovely and useful, it sounds like.

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:17:47] It was also another way to show the world another side to me and another part to me that I was finding. And I believe that I wasn't finding a new identity. I believe that this was always who I was because now when I speak with like cousins and family friends, they're like, when I was a little girl, I was always making up games. Like you have to do this and then jump up there and then catch on this. Like I was so imaginative with my stories. So it was almost like we were unlayering like the core of who I was meant to be before all of this.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:18:25] So what were some of the actions that you put in place that changed the trajectory of what was going on for you?

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:18:31] I would say the biggest change was giving up alcohol and drugs two and a half years ago now. I think that was the last thing that I had it more under control. So I was hitting huge success and rock bottom, huge success and rock bottom because I was Rocky Rafaela. And then when I stopped being Rocky Rafaela, it was like I still had, more self-love and healing to do. And I realised that I wasn't going to do that with drugs and alcohol because I was still numbing something. Yeah. So I gave that up. And it was almost like when I gave that up, it was the start of like real inner work. It's like, okay, let's go.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:19:14] No hiding from it now.

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:19:16] Yeah. And I spent a lot of time, at retreats and working on shame and God, there were so many things that I had to rewire. I got really into neuroscience and the brain and patterns and how it works and change. Dr. Joe Dispenza, like I became really intense with it. And then I have a great story for this. So the biggest kind of hit of transformation for me that I'd really changed was when I got this email from my high school. So my high school didn't expel people. Well, they do, but they ask them to leave. Like that's the polite way of doing it. And I was asked to leave, expelled. I'm in year 10 for bad behaviour and not passing grades. The same school that expelled me emailed me to come back and speak to their students as an inspiration to talk about my success and my journey. Yeah. And I remember ringing my friend and I was like, this is.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:20:20] You're not going to believe this.

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:20:21] Yeah, this is like someone is pranking me. I'm like, it can't be. And they're like, no, that's your school's email. Like 100%. And I almost was in disbelief for a good two hours. And yeah, it was just like, wow. And then going back onto the grounds, it's like, I loved that school. It was great. It was my own fault, of course. But being back there, I was like, wow, this time just to talk to all the students. Yeah, it was a funny kind of what would you say, 360, 180, I don't know. It's a funny loop. So yeah, these things started happening once I gave up drugs and alcohol. And then I got into a longer-term relationship and then I had to work through that. So it was like the universe kept now giving me things to work on that I had suppressed. Yeah. It's a wild adventure. I'm still working on a lot. I'm not fixed. I'm just getting started. But if this is how my life has ended up from a couple of years, then I'm excited for the rest. When I was seeing this life coach, she said, who do you aspire to be like? Like trying to find someone I may look up to. And I was like, no one, no one, no one. And then I was like, oh, Ruby Rose. And the reason I said Ruby Rose was because I could relate to her. I felt like we had similar issues at the time, but she was still out there following her dreams. And I was like, if she can do it, then I can? And then the weirdest story ends up happening, but basically found out she was at a DJ gig, gave a jacket to somebody, to a manager. Anyway, long story short, she ended up getting papped in LAX. Then she ended up wearing another jacket on a Maybelline ad in New York with Gigi Hadid. And it just, yeah, then I was making her jackets for red carpet events. And she still to this day doesn't know the effect she had on me. Yeah, she doesn't need to. But it's just wild how that kind of had a full circle moment. And now I'm hoping to do the exact same to other people that are stuck where I was.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:22:25] Yeah. Social media has a massive impact. A lot of what you see on social media isn't true. How did it influence you and how do you deal with it now? It's part of your business.

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:22:36] Yeah, a lot of it is fake. I'm in that world. I know a lot of people. A lot of people are actually just showing you a snippet of their life. So when young girls are comparing themselves or she's so confident, she's not, it's not true. So a lot of these girls actually can be quite insecure and not who they perceive to be. So it's a very fake world. So if you know that and you can kind of understand that, then Instagram doesn't have to be a dangerous place.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:23:09] Yeah. So how do you stay grounded? Your success is growing, feeling like a tall poppy. People might want to bring you down. What do you do? How do you manage that?

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:23:20] All right, this is what I'm working on. So yeah, if people say hurtful things, my initial reaction is to like bite back, right? But I don't want to be that way. Every time I do react in that way, I then sit in guilt and I'm like, oh, that's not how you should handle that. So I'm still learning. I'm not Mother Teresa. Like I am 100% who I am. And I think that's all part of it. Like I'm human. For people to come back and tell me, oh, you're this or that, it's going to rebound off me because I know what I'm struggling with. And that's up to me and myself to kind of heal and work on. Because like I said, I feel like I'm just getting started. I feel like when you have a past like me, it's something that I might have to work on for the rest of my life. But I'm pretty happy and I'm very comfortable in my skin these days.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:24:12] So the rise of Rocky is not just the title of your film, but it's also describing your life.

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:24:19] Yeah.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:24:19] What do you want people to take away? What do you want them to hear from your story? Particularly anyone who's right now in a dark place themselves.

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:24:28] Well, that transformation is possible. Trauma rewires us, but healing also rewires us. I didn't just survive. I rewired. I don't think there is such a thing as too far or too broken. From what I've been through, I believe change is always possible. I just think you have to want to change. And you also have to be able to be okay with changing how you look at yourself and your identity. I feel like we're stuck in this mindset that we are who we are, but honestly, we haven't even met the future versions of ourselves yet. It's just as simple as the first step of being aware. So I feel like it's important for people to know as well, my story hasn't been a straight upward line. It still isn't. It was always about getting knocked back down and coming back wiser and stronger. What did I learn from that situation? So many of my failures, and I don't even call them failures, I call them my gold because all those experiences—my gold—have made up who I am today. And I've learned something so different from every single experience. If you feel like you've failed something, it's actually teaching you or showing you a new direction to go. It's not a failure. It's, okay, let's go this way now. Or it's redirecting you or you're going to learn something that's going to help you understand something later on in life. I'm just about trying everything. What fits? Spirituality was a huge thing for me. Breathwork. I do breathwork a lot. Might not be for you, but painting might be. So again, we're such individual humans that I can't sit here and tell you what's going to work. It's up to you to try and figure it out. But something will definitely work.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:26:16] Just so amazing to have you here while there's so much going on and you're about to fly off for another amazing part of your career. Thank you for being here and sharing your story.

Rochelle Gregory:
[00:26:28] Of course.

Darcy (Host):
[00:26:29] Thanks for listening to Holding on to Hope, the podcast. Lifeline is grateful to all Holding on to Hope participants for choosing to share their personal lived experiences openly and courageously in order to offer hope and inspiration to others. Your act of kindness makes for a better world. And remember, you can call Lifeline at any time on 13 11 14.