Transcript

Darcy (Host):
[00:00:00] Welcome to "Holding on to Hope," a series that shares the stories of everyday Australians that have experienced moments in crisis and found a path to support. Whilst all of the stories shared offer hope and inspiration, at times you may hear something you find triggering. If you or someone you know needs crisis support, please phone Lifeline on 13 11 14, text 0477 13 11 14, or visit lifeline.org.au for Lifeline chat service, which is 24/7.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:00:31] Today's guest is Yasmin, a psychology student, former Lifeline crisis supporter, and someone who knows firsthand what it means to reach out for help in the middle of the night. From year 8, Yasmin was quietly dealing with anxiety and depression while trying to keep it together on the outside. For a long time, she felt alone and unsure if what she was going through was even real. Lifeline became a place she could turn when everything felt too heavy, especially in those late-night moments when no one else was there. Today, Yasmin is studying psychology, has found genuine hope for the first time in her life, and wants to share her story so that others know they don't have to face their toughest moments alone. Yasmin, you said this year has been the first time in your life that you've felt genuinely hopeful, like you wake up excited for the day. What's that felt like for you?

Yasmin:
[00:01:25] In the beginning, it actually felt quite foreign because I'd spent so many years actually not knowing what that felt like. And so to wake up and actually feel the energy and the strength to try things was, I didn't know where to place that hope, I guess. But over time, throughout this year, I think it started around January last year, I actually got to try new things. And that started with finding a new hobby. And eventually, I got to use that strength and use that motivation to explore what life could actually be. And I think that's a really beautiful thing, to be able to discover what life actually has in store. And so now I'm at a point where I've met so many new people, I've done so many things with my life that I wouldn't have been able to a couple of years ago. So to have that, yes, it felt foreign to begin with but over time, that feeling of foreignness, it became kind of excitement, and it became joy, and it became hope. And so now, while I have those bad days where, yeah, you feel not as good, but you're still able to wake up and acknowledge that, yeah, the next day or the next months have more in store for us. And I think that's, I'm at a point where I'm really grateful and I acknowledge my past, but where I am now is just a really beautiful place to be.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:02:51] So you're studying psychology now, and you've also been volunteering as a crisis supporter for Lifeline. What do you think that younger version of you in year 8, what do you think she would think of where you are now, what's going on for you?

Yasmin:
[00:03:04] Yeah, I think she'd be just really proud because she spent so long hoping for this and dreaming for this and not really thinking she could get here. And so if I was able to go back and show her, I think she'd just be shocked, probably, but also just really glad and really proud that all her dreams and all her efforts have come to fruition.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:03:28] Amazing. So let's go back a little to year 8, that really important part of time of your life. On the outside, you were doing well at school and looked like you had everything together, but privately inside, you were struggling. When you tried to talk to adults around you, what happened? What was that experience?

Yasmin:
[00:03:50] Yeah, looking back at that time, I think I feel quite sad for my younger self because at that time, we always tell people, like, if you are struggling, to reach out and talk to people. And that is what I tried to do. I heard from school, I heard from talks, that's what I should do. And the first people I reached out to were my parents. My parents, for cultural and also generational factors, they didn't believe that mental health was a thing at the time. So I was kind of hit with you're just being lazy or you're not trying hard enough, you just need to pick it up. And so that was the first response I had from my parents. And obviously, that made me feel quite alone. I eventually decided to go to a doctor. So I went to a general practitioner to explain to him what I was experiencing. And I was dismissed again. In that office, he told me to drink more water. And that was the only advice he had given me at that point. And yeah, he told me to log my water intake for two weeks and get back to him. And obviously, I went away starting to blame myself, blaming myself: oh, yeah, I am lazy. I'm not drinking enough water. I'm not doing enough exercise. This is why, that's the reason, it's all my fault. And same with teachers. My grades, there were some times where, yeah, my mental health actually did affect my studies and my ability to perform. And instead of teachers maybe reaching out and asking what was happening, instead they told me, you're not trying hard enough, why are your grades slipping? You're just too distracted, you're not studying enough. And so in this period when I felt so alone already and the people that I expected to help me just blamed me and made it seem like it was factors of my own life that I wasn't trying hard enough. I think at that time I would say that that's probably the time I felt most dismissed and felt like, yeah, that sense of hopelessness because where else was I supposed to go?

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:06:00] And turning it all inwards and inside. And you've spoken about carrying that shame, about feeling like this, that convincing yourself it was just probably a phase, you needed to do better because that's what you were being told as well. What was it like carrying all of that when you're still so very young in year 8?

Yasmin:
[00:06:21] Yeah, year 8, you're still growing. And so obviously, it's a period of transitioning from primary school to high school, growing up into becoming a teenager and all those changes. It was really easy to convince myself that, yeah, it was just a phase. I'll grow out of it. And to have to carry that along with all the other pressures, either socially and school and family, it felt so heavy. It felt like I was drowning in just so many things that were happening to me. And so understandably, I look back on that time, it's like, yeah, I was overwhelmed, I was burnt out, I was stressed. It turned into anxiety and depression because you place that much pressure and so many big ideas on such a young person that where is she supposed to put that and where is she supposed to navigate all of that?

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:07:20] You mentioned trying to talk to adults and not really getting very far. What was it like trying to talk to friends about how you were feeling, what you were thinking?

Yasmin:
[00:07:30] I think at such a young age, I was around 13 when I tried to start that conversation with my friends. A lot of them did take it as a joke or took it as a backhanded comment. So when I tried to share with my friends that I was having thoughts of suicide or that I was feeling heavily anxious, they kind of just dismissed it and thought I was just trying to be funny or trying to be a clown.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:07:53] Yeah, and with those big feelings and reaching out, not getting any help, by year 10 it had become a lot harder for you. And your health was affected, school became really difficult, and eventually you made the decision to drop out of school, stop going to school. Without sharing anything you don't want to what did that period of time feel like for you?

Yasmin:
[00:08:18] Yeah, it was my entire world crashing down at that time. Interestingly, in year 10, I was actually asked to step out of school for a period because of the physical health concerns that were happening. So I was experiencing anxious tics and pseudo-seizures. So pseudo-seizures, meaning there's no physical or visible reason for these seizures, but it can be due to heavy stress. And I was asked to step away. And I remember at that point in the school's office, I begged to not be asked to leave school because that was everything to me. That was all I found meaning in. That was what I was good at. I couldn't find meaning anywhere else, just in the numbers, the grades. And so to be pulled away from what the one thing that gave me, yeah, meaning, it felt like everything was just stripped away from me. And so when I was asked to step away from school, I kept trying. I kept trying to do online learning. This was prior to COVID, so it wasn't very well structured, but I tried to do it. I tried to do online assessments, and eventually the school kind of said, you need to take a full break. So I took a term off. And like you said, eventually, one term off, it affected my grades, obviously. And by then, the stress built because I wasn't catching up. And throughout year 11, I was pushing really hard to try and continue. And eventually, my parents saw the strain that that was putting on me. And eventually my parents and professionals made a collective decision that leaving school was the safest and the best for my well-being.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:10:05] Stripping away that, as you say, that sense of identity and who you were. It's a big change in your life to not have that routine. And you've also said that your friendships changed during that time, not because of any one thing, but the cumulative stress and struggles that slowly created distance between you and your friends and your peers. How much did that add to what you were carrying?

Yasmin:
[00:10:33] During this period, I was having thoughts of wanting to end my life. And when that kind of first started, I was telling myself, oh, I have friends, I have family who care about me. And that was what was pushing me and kept me going. And as these friendships started to fade away, not by anyone's fault, because naturally, with me stepping away from school, proximity is difficult. They all have their own things to focus on as well. So I wasn't reaching out to people, no one was reaching out to me. And eventually, those friendships just faded. And it kind of just added to that feeling of being alone. And like I mentioned before, my parents were there, but they didn't quite understand what was happening for me. And I truly just felt like the people that I was living for were disappearing from my life. And so eventually, yeah, those thoughts became stronger. It was harder to convince myself for the reasons to stay. Yeah, so to have that kind of be taken away as well, I felt like I was losing more and more. And so the reasons for me to keep living were yeah, fading away.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:11:39] Yasmin, what would you say to someone who's at school now and feeling alone?

Yasmin:
[00:11:44] To feel alone at school can be a normal experience. And there are a lot of other ways that you might be able to find connections. So there's a lot of online peer chats that exist within different services. There's also trying out community-based groups. Like when I dropped out of school, I obviously couldn't connect back with my school friends because of that distance. But what I did was I went to local communities, I went to local groups to find like-minded people and find people that enjoyed the things that I'd enjoy. And that's how I got to meet new people.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:12:23] After leaving school, you gave yourself a break, step away, focus on rebuilding, no pressure, no rushing, just healing. What did that time look like day to day? What were you doing? And why do you think it was helpful for you?

Yasmin:
[00:12:39] Yeah, I think when I kind of share that story, a lot of people might initially think like, oh, suddenly left school, everything was fixed. But actually, it was a really slow process. For the first couple of weeks of this, the goal was to step out of bed, to eat one thing. Prior to that, I was spending most of my days just lying in bed, maybe going on my phone. And so when I had left school, I told myself, yeah, let's try and just brush my teeth or brush my hair, have a shower. And that was hard. Some days I couldn't do it. And throughout those days, once I could regularly step out into the kitchen every day, I pushed myself to step outside on the balcony. And over time, really slowly, I got to push myself further and further. So from the balcony, it became, go for a walk around the block. Walking around the block became going to the shops. And through that, I also got to discover the things I enjoyed in life again, like shopping or going to see a movie and things like that where no pressure to get there, but to go there, I could kind of show to myself like, oh, yeah, there are things that I actually enjoy doing. And eventually, through that six months, I, yeah, got to find new things and try new things that I still do today. So I've discovered like guitar, and that's something I carry on with me now. And yeah, through that period, I think no pressure was the really key thing to not be mad at myself if I couldn't do something because through this time, I was acknowledging that, yeah, it has been really difficult. And it's really hard to expect myself to go from leaving school and leaving everyone in my life to suddenly, functioning in uni and work. That was a really unrealistic expectation of me, which is what I had going in. But through that process, I learned how to actually pick myself up and build myself. And I got to meet new friends and meet new people that got to be by my side. And a lot of them had shared lived experience of that and we could support each other through that. So yeah, building community through that time was also really important for my journey.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:14:56] And it sounds like you put that process together for yourself. Like you said, first goal, getting out of bed, then next, brushing your teeth or making it to the kitchen, balcony, around the block. It sounds like you were generating these strategies by yourself as you weren't getting the support you needed from other places. Is that right? Or did you have some other outside help? Or how was that for you?

Yasmin:
[00:15:22] I mean, it's actually Lifeline, right? Like Lifeline is a really big part of my story. And the way it supported me kind of changed through the years. When I first reached out to Lifeline, it was around year 8 when I used Lifeline as a bit of a space to speak. Like I said, I had no one else to talk to. All the adults around me weren't giving me permission to feel what I was feeling, but Lifeline did. And Lifeline started as a way for me to acknowledge the feelings that I was feeling, that they were okay. And as I got older, I had different needs. For example, towards the nighttime, they might ask me like, what are you doing after this call or after this chat? And I might say, oh, I might read a book. And they're like, yeah, that's a really good goal to have. Read a book before you go to bed. And same with speaking during this healing period of six months. I reached out and they kind of said, what could you do? Could you go for like a walk? And I kind of went, yeah, maybe I can go for a walk, actually. Like maybe I do have the strength to go. And that's what helped me to formulate what I wanted my healing to look like.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:16:31] What other sources of support or help have you found along the way?

Yasmin:
[00:16:36] Yeah, so right now I actually do see a psychologist. I think even though I am in a good place, there are also challenges that come up in life. So it's important for me to continue to monitor my own health with a psychologist. But I also have spoken to doctors and GPs, and I have my regular medical team who just monitor things around mental health as well.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:17:02] Not so much the water intake these days. That's not on their list.

Yasmin:
[00:17:05] No one's telling me to drink more water anymore.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:17:09] That's a win.

Yasmin:
[00:17:10] Yeah.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:17:11] So Yasmin, looking after yourself, it's a lifelong project, isn't it, for everybody? What do you do for self-care now?

Yasmin:
[00:17:19] I make sure that I always have something to come home to for self-care. So with work and with studying, every day it's either cooking a nice meal or playing my guitar or even just going for a walk, which are all things that I found that I loved in the time I was kind of healing and finding what I enjoyed in life again.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:17:43] So when you were struggling at school, you spoke about how friends dropped away without anything major happening. It was just distance and not doing the same things. But now you've got a different set of community and connections. What is the importance of being connected for you?

Yasmin:
[00:18:02] To be connected is one of the biggest things for well-being. To be able to talk to friends, not necessarily about mental health, but even just to have fun or to spark some joy in your day. I think that changes what my day feels like. It also changes how I feel in terms of that aloneness. To not feel alone is such a big factor in our well-being.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:18:28] So what do you think we need to do more to break down the stigma that's attached to feelings of suicide, thoughts of suicide?

Yasmin:
[00:18:37] Yeah, I think to talk about it for people with lived experience, to talk about their experiences is so important. And also to normalise reaching out for help through social media, through talking with your friends, to normalise that reaching out for help is not shameful. It's not an embarrassing thing to do. And as we continue that conversation throughout our society, the more and more that we're able to normalise, yeah, reaching out for help.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:19:11] Let's talk a little bit more about Lifeline. It was a part of your story from early on especially late at night when other services or ways of connecting were closed or not available. What did it mean to know someone was there, someone you could talk to? And what did those conversations give you in those moments?

Yasmin:
[00:19:34] To know that someone listened, I think, changed the way I viewed people. When I was being dismissed at that young age, I was so frustrated and I was really angry. And I thought that this is what people are when they're older. This is what adults are like.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:19:49] Oh, dear. Yeah.

Yasmin:
[00:19:51] But to have someone on the other end on Lifeline to just actually listen, to be not someone who's trying to fix my problems or not someone who's trying to blame the problems on something, but to just listen, I think, first gave me a bit of hope that some adults are there to help and they do want to listen. But also on a more heavy end, like some of those Lifeline calls actually spoke me off the edge of a bridge. Like late at night, that was the time when the thoughts were the strongest. And I was, yeah, wanting to take steps towards that. And Lifeline just sat with me and heard. And there were times where I could barely articulate what I was experiencing, but they were just there. They weren't trying to understand me. They were letting me express the feelings. And so a lot of them just sat with me until I was able to go to bed or I was able to step away from whatever I was doing. And they virtually held my hand through that. And a lot of them tried to encourage me to tell my parents or tell someone that I did trust to share that so that everyone around me could keep me safe. But for me, I think they changed what my life could have looked like. I think if I hadn't reached out to Lifeline, I think where I am now would be really different.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:21:23] I'm glad some adults came to the party. And not all the adults in the world have let you down. You later became a digital crisis supporter yourself. And you talk about hearing from young girls dealing with anxiety for the first time. What goes through your mind in those moments?

Yasmin:
[00:21:43] There's a sense of gratefulness that they're aware of this service, first of all. And it was really great to see young people reaching out, I guess, and to know where to reach out to. I guess I grew up in a space where it wasn't as talked about, the services. We weren't as aware of the services. So first of all, there is so much strength in people reaching out. And I'm really glad that where they are struggling, they are reaching out. But for me, especially to be able to really empathize with what they're going through around anxiety, around depression, my initial thoughts is I want them to be heard like I was heard. It's so important that in this time, they are validated and that their feelings are accepted. And it's really important that as a crisis supporter, that I give them the space for that. And I just want to give back what Lifeline gave to me.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:22:45] There's a number of different ways you can connect with Lifeline, including on the text and chat line. And how do you think that works for younger people?

Yasmin:
[00:22:53] Yeah, I think in this generation where texting is becoming a lot more prevalent, it is so great that Lifeline has a way to connect to those people. I'm aware that a lot of young people aren't comfortable with phone calls. So to remove that barrier and that fear of talking to someone over the phone and still be able to support people is such a great step.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:23:16] And so for anyone who's listening right now, listening to your story, Yasmin, and they're struggling to reach out to ask for help, what would you want them most to know?

Yasmin:
[00:23:26] Yeah, I would want them to know that there are people here who want to listen and who want to support them. That even if you're feeling shame, guilt, or fear of judgment, that there are people who want to be there and who, yeah, want to support you.

Carla (Interviewer):
[00:23:41] You've just done such a remarkable job of telling your story and putting it all together. Even in a short number of years from where you were at high school to now studying and working, it's not a long journey in terms of time. I know it must have felt like that at times for you. But to be able to tell your story with such great insight, it's so useful. And there will be people listening who go, yep, I can hear myself in Yasmin's story. So thanks so much for talking with us and talking us through that today.

Yasmin:
[00:24:19] That was really great to be able to share my story. And I always say any time I share my story, if it helps one person, then the whole thing is worth it.

Darcy (Host):
[00:24:30] Thanks for listening to Holding on to Hope, the podcast. Lifeline is grateful to all Holding on to Hope participants for choosing to share their personal lived experiences openly and courageously in order to offer hope and inspiration to others. Your act of kindness makes for a better world. And remember, you can call Lifeline at any time on 13 11 14.