Narrator:
[00:00:00] Welcome to Holding on to Hope, a series that shares the stories of everyday Australians that have experienced moments in crisis and found a path to support. Whilst all of the stories shared offer hope and inspiration, at times you may hear something you find triggering. If you or someone you know needs crisis support, please phone Lifeline on 13 11 14, text 0477 13 11 14 or visit lifeline.org.au for Lifeline chat service, which is 24/7.

Interviewer:
[00:00:33] Rob Mills is a household name in Australia, an actor, singer, songwriter, television host, and entertainer known for his warmth and authenticity. Behind the spotlight, Rob has navigated moments of deep uncertainty, anxiety, and disconnection, and he's been courageous in sharing his journey to inspire others. In recent years, he's become a passionate advocate for mental health and Lifeline's mission, using his voice to normalise conversations around seeking help and staying connected. Rob, you've spoken about having a happy childhood and being the youngest of three boys. Can you take us back to those early years and what life looked like for you growing up?

Rob Mills:
[00:01:07] Yeah, I reckon I had a pretty standard Aussie suburban life. Loved my sport, loved being a bit mischievous, was sort of like the nerdy kid at school.

Interviewer:
[00:01:21] So a smart kid, smart, active, mischievous kid.

Rob Mills:
[00:01:27] Yeah, smart, active, mischievous. Parents broke up in like year seven and I think I just got a little bit of like, I don't really care as much anymore when I got to high school. So I went from a smart kid who really loved school, really loved these teachers to like being too mischievous, I suppose, to being the, if the teacher, you know, the teacher would ask, do you want to take the class, Robert? And I would say, yes, miss, I do want to take the class. I think moving house every two weeks, going from mum's to dad's house, I think in hindsight
[00:01:58] probably did have a bit of an effect. Super grateful that my parents live close, close by to one another and I'm really grateful that they still were quite amicable in their relationship. But yeah, I jumped out of Brentwood Secondary College, they didn't have a music program. So I wanted to pursue a bit of music and change schools, which I think was one of the best things I could have done. Year 11 and 12 were at Box Hill Senior Secondary and that's where you sort of, I don't know, you really have to, you have to get to know yourself and you have to get to know all these different people. A couple of years later, I got myself into a, into a band when I was about 18 and was singing in pubs every weekend and singing in footy clubs and cricket clubs around Melbourne.
[00:02:30] So I thought, oh, maybe this is my life now, you know, I'm not going to be the electrician. I'll just be a singer, I'll just sing in pub bands and that's fine. And random other jobs like mowing the lawn and changing the signs at the airport. That was kind of a random job. And then getting sort of thrust into the limelight on Australian Idol.

Interviewer:
[00:02:54] And growing up in that way, obviously a talent for music and you wanted to explore that and you had this amazing experience on Australian Idol. And after that, you were suddenly in the public eye. Everybody knew your name, everybody knew your face and you were touring and recording and navigating a whole new world. What was going on for you internally in that time?

Rob Mills:
[00:03:17] Being thrust into the limelight and having that sort of 15 minutes of fame and everyone having an idea of who you are, but you not knowing who you are is not good, especially for someone who feels a lot. And I noticed that during the show, I was feeling quite a lot of emotions when someone would leave the show or when, luckily, I mean, thank God there was no social media back then. I think there was MySpace and there was some blogs. I remember my brother saying, don't read the blogs. I was like, what's a blog? I'm not sure.

Interviewer:
[00:03:47] Oh, how times have changed.

Rob Mills:
[00:03:48] Yeah, times have changed. I mean, I think, I don't know if my little brain would have been able to handle it, the scrutiny, I suppose.

Interviewer:
[00:03:55] So those years of that really low self-worth and anxiety and some panic attacks, can you share what those moments felt like and how they shaped you?

Rob Mills:
[00:04:05] Yeah, I think it's pretty scary when you have a panic attack because you don't really know what it is. My first one was during, we were at a shopping centre. We'd performed with the top eight of the Australian Idol cast and we were signing autographs for fans.
[00:04:20] And I was already pumped up from the adrenaline of the singing and then just the noise, the amount of people sitting at the end. You're like, hi, how are you? Hi, how are you going?
[00:04:29] Good to see you. Yeah, I'll sign up for you. So this was just a lot of energy coming in my way. I remember getting up off the table. I said, I just need a, I think I also had a Red Bull as well because we were tired. We'd been performing and, you know, didn't know what was happening in my body, but I was like, oh, this is, I just needed to take a moment and have a, have a breath. I had one once before at the pub when I was singing many years before that, kind of like a feeling of like, oh, I'm going to, my heart feels like it's bursting out of its, out of its chest. Happened on a flight, maybe a year later as well after Idol. I had a panic attack.
[00:05:00] Yeah, on a flight, I just asked someone next to me to talk to me. I was like, do you mind if we just have a quick chat? I think I'm having a panic attack. They're like, oh, that's okay. I was like, yeah, I'm fine. I just need to, just need to talk to someone. Had that external anchor. Yeah, just need to talk to someone. Just tell me about your life. Ask a few questions and post-idol, I had a scary moment. Another one of those sort of panic attacks with lots of people sort of ganging up on me, just wanting to get photos and grabbing me and pulling like my top and at my hair and like getting me a headlock and yeah, to the point where
[00:05:34] I just ran and jumped in someone random's car and they drove me back to the hotel and my friend asked me if I was okay. I was like, yeah, yeah, I'm fine, fine, fine. And then I, yeah, went up to the hotel room and noticed that the balcony door was open. And in that split second, I had that thought of like, you could just end it now. It was a really fleeting thought, but it was terrifying. So terrifying. I remember running to the door and slamming it shut and just having a moment of just a couple of deep breaths and called my brother and I didn't tell him what had happened, but I just told him that, yeah, I'd had a good night, great day at the Indy car races and yeah, it was good.
[00:06:08] Heaps of drinks and heaps of fun. And just didn't, did not, did not tell him until years, you know, maybe a year or so later.
[00:06:19] I moved into this day. I did a gig there earlier this year and I, at the hotel, which I hadn't been back into since, well, I was 21. So that's like 22 years had passed. And I called my partner. I just broke down in tears. I was like, Oh my God, this is the hotel. This is the, this is the place. I, I thought about, you know, like ending, ending my life. I'm like, what, what a life I've had since then. So I still get emotional thinking about it now, but like, yeah, like what, what a decision I made on that night was like, um, as I said, I think it was a fleeting moment, but I'm so proud of the life that I've had since then because of that clarity or that, like, Oh no, you've got more to, you've got more to give.
[00:06:53] There's, there's something more. You're just not, not knowing who you are, what you want right now. That's, and that's okay.

Interviewer:
[00:07:13] The first time you called your brother and didn't talk about what was going on for you. The second time you called your partner and you were able to talk through what that had triggered for you. Can you talk a little bit more about what that moment taught you about the power of connection and speaking up about what's going on?

Rob Mills:
[00:07:29] I think I was scared. I think, I think a lot of the time when I think back to that kid, scared to share it because I didn't want to, because I didn't want to feel sad. I didn't want to feel sad myself for a lot of blokes that don't want to share their deepest, darkest, or even just their random, casual, crazy thoughts because they don't want to burden other people. Everyone's got their own stuff going on. They feel some sort of shame or guilt around how they're feeling anyway, but they don't want to burden other people. A problem shared is a problem halved. I think it's just a super, it's super important to be like, Oh, I've just, I've got that off my chest.
[00:08:02] Actually, it's not so bad. Great.
[00:08:07] Yeah. Okay. So just a thought. Yep. Just a thought.

Interviewer:
[00:08:10] I know you've had a career setback and a record deal ended and you're overseas and grieving for that. What was, what was that period like?

Rob Mills:
[00:08:20] I remember at this moment I was at a, I was at a bar with my mum and I remember this guy started yelling at me for just being there. Like, what the fuck are you doing here, Millsy?
[00:08:33] When no one wants you here. And I was like, mate, I'm just having dinner with my mother.
[00:08:36] Like, can you, would you just mind your language? Or he's like, he just went off. I think it was at that moment. I was like, I don't, I don't really want to be here. I don't really want to be in Australia. So I went overseas and did that, you know, obligatory kind of backpacking trip that I think a lot of people in their twenties do. The soul searching, find yourself, go and find your own weirdos and, you know, find people that are like-minded, I suppose. And I really loved it. I cried a lot on that trip and I'm glad, I'm so glad I did that trip. It was awesome. It was amazing. Met all these great people who just, who I
[00:09:09] met at face value. They didn't know me for the guy from Idol. They just met me as Rob the guy from, you know, from Australia.

Interviewer:
[00:09:16] Musicals became something that were, that you shifted your thinking on. Do you want to talk a little bit more about that?

Rob Mills:
[00:09:22] So when I was overseas in 2006, I saw shows like Avenue Q. I saw We Will Rock You. I saw Wicked and I realized, oh my God, musicals aren't just Stephen Sondheim and Rodgers and Hammerstein. They're actually really cool pop rock stuff that I was like, contemporary stuff. I was like, I could sing that. And I saw Adam Garcia and Helen Dallymore, some Aussies, you know, on stage over there. And I was like, okay, I can't dance as well as Adam, but I could sing, I could sing that. I could do, I could, I could play Fiero in Wicked. I remember calling my manager and vowed to like be a part of the show. I was like,
[00:09:57] okay, it's going to come to Australia at some stage. Like what I, what I have to do. Like I'll, I'm going to come home and I'm going to take acting lessons, singing lessons, dance lessons, and I'll work my ass off. So I did, I came home and worked my absolute butt off in the lead up to this wicked audition. When the auditions came around, I did four auditions over three months and I got the, I got the gig. I'll never forget February the 2nd, my manager came over with a bottle of champagne. I just bought a very small apartment and well, the bank bought it and I was, one day I was going to pay it back.
[00:10:30] And she goes, congratulations on the house and you booked Wicked. So February 2nd for me will always be like this great day.
[00:10:42] Like it's Wicked changed my life. Like it's, it got me into musical theater. It got me into like a community and family and, and purpose. It was kind of like, I think for me it was like, cause I love playing sport for so many years. I played footy and cricket and baseball and it basically, it's like you're in a footy team. Like you're in a sporting team. Like you're just a small cog in a very big machine, whatever role, like you're not, you're only as important as the, the lighting person who's lighting you without the sound person. Like no one can hear you without this, without the props.
[00:11:12] There's no props on stage. Without the stage hands, there's no sets moving.
[00:11:16] Like you're all just a very small cog in a very big machine. It was so, I loved it. I was like, oh, I'm part of a team. I was like, it's not just me. I loved, I think that's what I love most about musical theater is like you're in a team. And also at the end of every show you win, you win every game. Like they clap at the end of every show. So it's like your team can win or lose. Like it's bloody great.

Interviewer:
[00:11:37] I can see your face light up, even talking about the hard work of the lessons. Like, it's just like, I found it. I found my purpose. I found where I want to be. It just seems to have filled you up.

Rob Mills:
[00:11:49] Yeah. I think it just, it did fill my cup. I think, yeah, that's why purpose is so important for people. I think find the thing that you, that you love and whether it is your job or whether it's a hobby, like find the thing that, that makes you, that you love. Like my partner did this. We did this a couple of years ago. We wrote a, um, an anti-list and anti-list is a really good way of, um, looking at how we wanted to spend the rest of the year. She was like, well, I don't want to live. I don't want to live in an apartment with that's dark. I don't want to have to walk too far to work. I don't want to have to. So it was like a, all the things
[00:12:23] I don't want. And then all of a sudden you have a clear, a more clear understanding of what you do want. So sometimes it's hard for people to find out what they do want, but like, all right, well, what are the things you don't want? Everyone knows what they hate. It just makes it clearer for you to, to work out what you, what you do want. I think for me, the purpose was being in a team, being a team environment and also, um, getting to perform. And I think storytelling most recently I was on stage. I was listening to my friend Amy doing a beautiful monologue about us breaking up on stage. I was playing William Shakespeare.
[00:12:53] She was playing my wife and my head was like, Hey mate, why are you doing this? It was coming down off these steroids, which I didn't realize had a depressant side effect. And as I said, I've done so much work on myself over the last, you know, 10 years or so, um, regular psych appointments. I know what the voices are. And I know, I was like, Oh, this one's not mine. I don't know who that is. Cause my life is great. I'm in this great show. I've got a great partner. I've got good friends, good support. I don't know who that is talking to me right now. That's a, that's a different voice. It was just really, it was a bit scary cause it was like, that's, that's pretty, it's pretty weird.
[00:13:25] So anyway, I was on my scooter and my Vespa on the, on the way home and, uh, called my partner and I just cried on the phone to her. I was like, this is, that was a really scary moment, uh, at work tonight. And she was like, do you want me to come up? And, and I was like, yes. So I think she flew up the next day or the week after or, um, come and hang out just for a couple of, a couple of days. But yeah, I'm so grateful, as I said, that I have all of the people in my life now that I can just put my hand up and say, I'm not, not doing well.
[00:13:59] Like whether it's my brother or my partner, couple of really good close friends. I think that's one of the reasons why I like Lifeline or like helping out with charities for mental health charities is like, well, you need to see it to be it. You know, we need to see a few more people put their hand up and say that they're struggling. I mean, are you okay? Day is all about asking people if they're okay.
[00:14:23] A lot of people don't want to share that information. I think the first step is creating that safe environment or making sure that you feel comfortable having those conversations.
[00:14:30] But even if it's for people who can just go, yeah, I'm actually not, not doing great.

Interviewer:
[00:14:35] You're such a strong advocate for mental health, your book, uh, working with Lifeline. So sharing your story, it's a deeply personal thing. What kind of impact have you seen on others that's helped you in your own journey as well?

Rob Mills:
[00:14:49] I got some really good feedback from people on the street. Uh, I got a really lovely email from someone who was a, uh, worked on a, an oil rig, a young guy in his mid twenties. He was like, Millsy, I just read your book. And I just want to say, thank you so much for, I don't feel alone in this, like that I'm a bit weird and I'm feeling all these things. I'm like, yeah, man. I was like, thank you so much for reaching out. And he goes, I'm in a really blokey, blokey environment.
[00:15:15] And I don't really feel like I'm that kind of blokey guy. I go, that's okay. There was a really large spectrum of like bloke, you know, like that's, I think that's the thing that I worked out from this book. So that, that kind of feedback has been great. Um, I think just the conversations that I'm having with, um, a lot of men, a lot of women since writing the book and learning more about how I feel about, uh, sharing things and vulnerability and how I think that vulnerability is the place that actually is when we share our own vulnerability is actually when we share our strength.
[00:15:49]That's actually the moments that we connect best with other people. I think the, the walks that I've been on with friends and even strangers on some sort of like, um, charity walks have been really good as well. Really eyeopening people sharing their, their stuff just because, you know, you're on a walk, you feel much more comfortable.
[00:16:09] There's like, for some reason the, the walls are down a bit and you're out and you're just like, yeah, sharing some stuff. It's a good, I think it's, I think it's really, really important.

Narrator:
[00:16:19] We hope you're enjoying this episode. Lifeline's new support toolkit makes it easier to care for family, friends, and loved ones and look after yourself along the way. Visit us at toolkit.lifeline.org.au. Now back to the episode.

Interviewer:
[00:16:40] You've also talked about purpose, that that's really important to you and you use exercise and singing, of course, journaling, self-reflection as part of your own self-care. What, what do they give you those practices?

Rob Mills:
[00:16:52] I think the journaling in between sessions with a psych is really, really, has been really helpful for me. As someone who's hated, uh, any kind of self-reflection, that's why I forced myself to do the psych sessions because I'm like, if I don't do it myself, uh, I've, I've got to force myself to do it. Cause I know that it works. Same with exercise. Like no one wants to exercise. Like, let's be honest. Like it's hard.
[00:17:13] Like nobody wants to go for a run. No one wants to get up at seven or six in the morning to go to the gym, but it's, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't think of anyone who actually likes getting up and doing it, but the benefits from it, having your heart rate up for, you know, 20 minutes, half an hour, or just gaining some muscle strength so that later in life that you're, you, you, you don't fall over and break your leg or break a hip or like planning all that stuff for the, for the future.
[00:17:43] Exercise is so important. Getting sleep, like just getting at least six to eight hours. If you can get 10, I'm like, God, I don't know who's getting 10, but like sleep is, sleep is so important. Like rest, sleep, water, um, bushwalk with friends, calling a friend, going for a walk, like having a hug, having a high five at the very least is much sort of like eye to eye, um, connection is, is super important. Um, finding your purpose you were saying before.
[00:18:17] That's really important for anyone is finding that thing that you either that you really love doing and that can be a hobby. Um, so that even at work, you're like, all right, well, this is just work. This is just going to pay the bills, but then having that thing outside of work, um, that is like, well, this is the thing that floats my boat, you know, and I'm, I'm luckily, luckily for me, I actually get to do the thing that I, that I love and that's my job. So that's, um, I'm super blessed and forever grateful that I actually get to make money from doing something that I love.
[00:18:51] But yeah, I think finding something, um, your purpose where there is for work, helping others, oh, helping others is also another really good way to make yourself feel better.
[00:18:55] Um, like giving your time, money or, um, yeah, helping someone else out. Um, being altruistic is, um, is a really good way of actually makes like guiltily, like selfishly that it actually makes you feel better.

Interviewer:
[00:19:12] It has that effect, doesn't it? Of giving you something back.

Rob Mills:
[00:19:15] Yeah. You feel like you're, you're helping out. Um, and there's different ways. There's many ways in which you can help, help other people. Um, but you know, like they say in the airplane, make sure you, um, put your oxygen mask on first before helping others. Here's a little tidbit for all those listening. This works for me as far as my mental health and my, uh, the strengthening of my relationship with Georgie. We started dating, sober dating.
[00:19:42] So I'd finish the play late at night. She'd start work very early in the morning. So 10 AM or 10 30 in the morning, I pick her up from work and we just go for a walk with a coffee.
[00:19:52] And that was our dating. Our courting was basically walking through the botanical gardens in Melbourne.
[00:19:58] And I loved it. I'd never, never had that experience. And we've continued that, that theme or that sort of trend of, of walking. Sometimes we might sit in the house and not talk to each other. And then as soon as we put the shoes on and go for a walk, she will not stop.
[00:20:16] And then this happened and then this happened. And then I'm like, yeah, this, okay, cool. Like, like it's a really good way. There's something about when you're walking outside in nature, your eyes are darting left to right. And for some reason that is a, um, stream, it helps with your stream of consciousness. You're also walking side by side. You don't have the, you don't feel the judgment from other people's eyeballs on you. Um, which I think is really important. I think you probably guys know that from lifeline as well.
[00:20:51] Like the people feel less, um, less inhibitions when they're talking to someone on the phone, cause I don't feel the eyeballs on them, but there's something about that walking next to each other. Um, even this morning we went for, we went to the gym this morning and we were for a walk after we're just learning new things about one another still to this day. So, um, and also like, it's a great way to plan for the week. Um, on those walks, like, Oh, I've been thinking about this. Oh, okay. I didn't know you were thinking about that. Okay. Let's, what can we do to, uh, you know, and at the same time, it doesn't have to be fixing things.
[00:21:19] It can just be like, it could be airing grievances as well. It could be airing grievances.
[00:21:24] It's a safe space. It's a safe space on the wall. It's a safe space.

Interviewer:
[00:21:28] Finally, for, for someone listening who might be out there now feeling lost and disconnected as, as you once did and sometimes might still, what message of hope do you want to share with them?

Rob Mills:
[00:21:40] Put your phone down. If you're feeling bad, look at what you're doing in your life at the moment. What are the things that are making you feel bad? I guarantee you one of them is scrolling on TikTok or Instagram or it, in the moment it will make you feel good because it's giving you a dopamine hit. It's like eating sugar. It's like eating a chocolate bar. Like you're just constantly in a chocolate bar over and over again, but over time, "Oh my God,
[00:22:03] I'm so fat. How did I get so fat?" We're just eating chocolate bars. Like that's what you're doing to your brain.
[00:22:08] And I'm guilty of this. I'm not saying that I'm super guilty of it. I have to put time limits on my phone because you get sucked into it. You're like, this is very entertaining. Very entertaining. That's also very, that's very funny. Very entertaining.
[00:22:19] But you're actually giving your energy to, to something that's, you're better off reading a book, getting that long form gratification. Um, you're better off going for a walk with a friend. You're better off, um, trying something, trying something new, failing at something, trying and sucking at something is also really, really good. Like get embarrassed, go and like try something you've never done before that you've always been putting off to do, whether it's painting or writing or something creative, or even if it's just like going to a restaurant
[00:22:50] or going to like somewhere new in a new area, like try something, try something new. I think that's a really good way of getting outside of your own comfort zone. Um, but I think there is, there is hope because I think humanity will prevail. I saw this study where 90% of the population on the planet want the same things, whether it's shelter, food, community, um, and obviously in our capitalist society, we need money to survive as well. But like those,
[00:23:20] those four, five things, like that's, that's all you need and that's what everyone, everybody wants.
[00:23:26] So I like to think that, um, yeah, the world is a very positive place that also wants to help each other. I know that Australia gives more money to charity than most other countries in the world.
[00:23:39] Um, I think we're incredibly, incredibly giving. Um, yeah, I think there is a, there's definitely a lot of hope in the world, but I think if you put your phone down and smile at the person that's walking, um, when you're on a walk, say good morning. It's like, there's just those little, those little things, um, are a really good way of, um, keeping the mood up, but yeah, trying, trying new things and like failing, I think is really important. Failing and realizing, yeah, well, I suck, I suck at it for now, but I'll get better, you know, like, and like life,
[00:24:13] like life, it's going to be a bit shit for a while. I think that's also the other thing is knowing that there is a ebb and flow of, of life. There's no way that it all just keeps going up and up and everything's great all the time. Like I think if anything, that movie Inside Out, that Pixar Disney movie taught us like the importance of sadness, we need, we need sadness.
[00:24:32] Sadness is really important. We need to grieve. We need to feel sad. We need to feel but then it's joy that gets us out or it's the other emotions that we have that we have, have them all. We have to have them all.

Interviewer:
[00:24:42] Well, Rob, I really want to thank you for giving up your time today, talking with Lifeline, sharing your story. It's really important that we hear from people from all walks of life because mental health is something that affects people from all walks of life. So thank you so much for your time today and your advocacy for mental health.

Rob Mills:
[00:25:03] It's just fantastic. No worries. Thank you so much for having me. And yeah, if anyone ever feels like they're in doubt, just give them a call. Give them a call.

Narrator:
[00:25:14] Thanks for listening to Holding On To Hope, the podcast. Lifeline is grateful to all Holding On To Hope participants for choosing to share their personal lived experiences openly and courageously in order to offer hope and inspiration to others.
[00:25:26] Your act of kindness makes for a better world. And remember, you can call Lifeline at any time on 13 11 14.