Note: this transcript has been edited for clarity, grammar, and flow.

Jo: Just take a moment, breathe in through your nose, a deep, calming breath; and then exhale out through your mouth, long and slow. Keep going, deep and slow.

You're here listening because you care.

You're here because you want to know more.

You're here because you are strong enough.

You're listening to the Strong Enough podcast from Eating Disorders Families Australia.

Self-care is vital. Use this short meditation at the start of each podcast to take a moment for yourself. Keep those calming breaths going as you listen to this episode, which is sponsored by the generosity of people facing similar challenges.

Jo: Welcome to Strong Enough, I'm your host, Jo Stone.

If you looked at the title of today’s podcast, you’d think that this is one just for the men in the lives of loved ones with an eating disorder. But it is much more than that.

It is a real insight into the roles men play when mental health challenges, illness, and eating disorders (EDs) darken a doorway. It will help everyone in a family, partnership, or caring role understand the challenges of caring that hit differently for men.

We're going to shed some light on some of the tough feelings about the helplessness, or feeling out of control maybe for the first time in their life. The pressure of being the breadwinner and trying to keep it together at work while a crisis brews at home. And the struggle for some to lean into the caring role when they've never known how.

Rohan: There are things that I regret and shouldn’t have done, and you learn along the way. And one of those things was, you know, like the de-escalation of a situation where you just go, you know what, this isn’t going well. I’m going to back out.

Jo: You might recognise that voice because today’s guest is someone you would know well if you’re in the EDFA support groups. In particular, the male carers’ support group. But it’s someone I know well too, from another life, working in a busy television newsroom.

Rohan Wastell spent decades behind the camera, filming some of the biggest media events in Australia. He’s been on the front line, witnessing and recording human emotion and suffering, sometimes on a daily basis. But he says nothing prepared him for the diagnosis of his daughter with an eating disorder.

He’s using her initial ‘C’ instead of her name in this podcast. And I started by asking him: What have been some of the most well-known stories you’ve covered?

Rohan: I was a news cameraman at Channel 7 for 38 years. And during that time, probably the biggest stories were things like Ash Wednesday, covering numerous floods around Victoria, Black Saturday, those sorts of things. And numerous other stories like sieges, huge court cases, and political upheavals. Just about anything, AFL stories ... anything.

I mean, I don’t know, you and I covered quite a few big stories. I’m pretty sure that we covered a huge train crash at some stage together.

Jo: That’s right.

Rohan: And, you know, yeah. So it’s been an amazing front-row seat to a lot of history in this state, and sometimes worldwide.

Jo: And you’ve always been so cool and calm and collected, you know, in the midst of all of those things. What do you think has helped you be like that at work?

Rohan: I’m paddling very frantically underneath the water. If I’ve remained cool and calm, well, thank you for that. I haven’t always thought that I’ve been cool and calm.

I think I had a real passion for images and being able to get a story out to people who don’t know the story, whatever message that might be. You, having worked in the media, you understand that. And you work as a team. So you’re looking at the bigger picture. And I think that passion for getting the best pictures, getting the story, making it look the best under incredibly tight time situations and stress. Lots of pressure.

Jo: Yeah, massive pressure.

Rohan: Yeah.

Jo: So you’ve seen, you know, lots of things through your work. But do you think that anything, given that you’ve really seen human suffering firsthand, did anything really prepare you for dealing with your daughter’s diagnosis of an eating disorder?

Rohan: Nothing prepares you, I think, for something like that. Look, I’ve been through quite a bit of trauma as a kid. You know, my upbringing wasn’t always fantastic. But I sort of left that behind me. When you have kids, you try to rewrite things. You bring up your children differently.

But suddenly, you’re faced with a really incredibly traumatic situation happening in your own family. And nothing prepares you for that.

Because, you know, with my work, even though I saw a lot of trauma, it was always someone else. It was always happening to someone else. And you had empathy, and you tried to understand their situation and get their story out.

But when it’s happening in your own home, among your own family, and the effect that it has on you, and there’s really no escape either. It’s really difficult. Once you’ve done a hard day’s work, you come back home, you want a bit of peace and solitude… and then you’re faced with World War III at home sometimes. It’s really challenging.

Jo: How tough was it going into work and just carrying on as normal, then coming home to that?

Rohan: I think sometimes work was a bit of an escape, actually. I could get away from it, whereas my wife was sort of stuck here, coping with everything that was going on. So I felt that I left her quite a bit.

Jo: She was working part-time.

Rohan: I guess it was probably lucky that I was in such a flexible job, because in media, you can’t really leave work, and you can get called away to cover a story, sometimes for days. So I was lucky in that regard, I guess, that it was flexible. And that’s how we worked around those hospital appointments and the general caring roles.

Jo: Yeah.

Rohan: It was really tricky. But we seemed to get around it okay. We just negotiated who’s off, who’s around, who can take her to this? Meryl did a lot of the hospital appointments like taking her to the doctor, getting her checked up. She had the knowledge; she had a medical background, she was a dietitian, and she was happy to do that.

So she was much more obliging with her. I tended to just be in the background, keeping things chuffing along.

Jo: Do you feel like, as a man, you're kind of expected to just compartmentalise your life and carry on? Did you feel that way?

Rohan: I don’t know whether that was expected of me, but it was how I behaved. I had to say, Well, I have to be as much of a rock as I can, or try to keep things together, to certainly support Meryl in our journey through what was going on.

I mean, she was incredible with everything happening in the family and the effect it was having on us. But I thought, Well, my role is to figure out where I fit in. So I tried to fill in the gaps, to be there when I could.

But working shift work made it really difficult. You know, I wasn’t around on weekends, and that’s when a lot of things happened. I was sort of missing in action for years, which made it really difficult.

So I think it is tricky for men. And I know that some of the blokes I’ve spoken to just continue on with their work. They focus on work rather than family because they don’t know how to fit in or how to be of support.

That affects the relationship you have with your kids. Raising a teenage girl is tricky enough as a male, but once you throw an eating disorder or a mental health challenge into the mix, it can be really tough.

Jo: How did it affect you emotionally, physically, and mentally?

Rohan: I was probably out of my depth some of the time. It was just really tricky. It was so hard to get my head around what was going on, what my role would be, how to understand it, and how we could support.

And I suppose one of the things that men do is try to find an answer or a solution. Whereas there’s no really clear solution to mental health challenges. Sometimes they last a short time; sometimes they go on for years.

And in our case, it was years. So I had to try and educate myself to understand what was happening and to figure out my role.

Meryl and I would talk about how best to support C, how we could share the load, and how to approach different situations. But this was all completely new territory.

I’d seen mental health issues in my work, heard about them, even covered stories on them. But when it’s happening in your own home, it’s a totally different situation.

And the other thing was, it didn’t just affect our daughter with the eating disorder; it also affected our younger daughter, J. It had a really traumatic impact on her as well. So we were trying to support both of them. It felt like we were keeping so many balls in the air.

Jo: Yeah, just multi-tasking everywhere. What were the first signs that your daughter, C, wasn’t well? Had there been anything leading up to that point?

Rohan: Yeah, it’s interesting. I can’t remember a clear moment where we thought, Oh my gosh, this is happening. There was nothing sudden. It was a gradual retreat from food.

Just not eating as well as she used to. She was very bright but quite stressed. She was popular at school and had a great group of supportive friends. She was really talented in music and theatre, and we supported her in that. So we thought things were okay.

But then, little things started adding up. She’d do things differently. She’d behave in ways that weren’t quite right. It snuck up on us. Before we knew it, things had gotten serious. We were trying to get support through our GP, hoping to help her recover quickly. But it just got gradually worse. A lot of it was out of our control.

And C was very headstrong and independent, even as a young child. That didn’t help her situation because she started shutting us out. Many treatments for eating disorders involve sitting down and eating meals together, working on portion sizes, and providing support. But C just wouldn’t have a bar of it. She’d get up and leave. There was no negotiation.

And sometimes, I felt like people assumed we weren’t trying hard enough, that we weren’t being strict enough. But they didn’t know our daughter.

Jo: That must have been so hard. And you mentioned that it really affected you emotionally and mentally. Where did you turn for help

Rohan: Meryl, funnily enough, had worked with eating disorders in her career. She’d had some experience with children and families affected by them. But even she didn’t have deep knowledge. So we both had to get up to speed. We tried to build a support network, a village around us. That meant finding a good paediatrician, a good GP, and a good psychologist.

For myself, I read a lot. I found books that were recommended to me and tried to understand eating disorders and what was happening. Because, like most people, I used to think, Why don’t they just eat? Why can’t they just be hospitalised and re-fed until they get better? But that’s not how it works.

Jo: That’s such a common reaction.

Rohan: Yeah, it is. I remember the first time I ever heard about an eating disorder. It was Karen Carpenter.

Jo: Oh yes, from The Carpenters.

Rohan: Yeah, in the ’70s. I remember thinking, How does someone do that to themselves? She was living in a country with plenty of food. She had a great career. She was so talented. I just didn’t understand. And I don’t think a lot of people did back then.

That’s why when Meryl found EDFA, it was a real game-changer. She started attending their sessions and said, You should come along. So I did. And it was amazing. Just sitting in a room, hearing other people’s stories, realising we weren’t alone. Because we didn’t know any other families going through this. It was isolating.

Jo: And it must be quite hard for people to really empathise and have that level of understanding. You mentioned control there. One of the big issues for men is control. Most of what’s happening to your loved one is completely out of your control.

Men are very used to managing and controlling situations, fixing things. How did you deal with that?

Rohan: I suppose being out of control was really difficult.

In the end, I had to accept that there was no way I was going to be able to control what was happening to C. So instead, I focused on supporting her in any way I could. That meant keeping life as normal as possible, encouraging her in the things she loved, and just being there.

She had serious FOMO. She wanted to be involved in everything, every party, every creative activity. And I thought maybe that would help in her recovery. But I had to let go of the idea that I could fix this. It was chaotic. So Meryl and I talked, strategised, and made plans to keep everything running as smoothly as possible. It was about supporting each other too, just keeping going, together.

Jo: And Rohan, you were one of the original members of the Male Carers Group at EDFA. You still help out and attend some of the monthly sessions there. I thought it might be helpful if we ran through some of the questions and issues that regularly come up in the group.

Maybe the first thing we should talk about is how hard it can be for men to lean into the caring role, especially when traditionally, that role has been left to the women in our lives. What do you think is the biggest challenge for men stepping into that role?

Rohan: In general, I think it’s just the way things have always been that women naturally take on the caring role.

For men, the key is to listen to their partner, to take on whatever responsibilities they can. Because when a crisis like this hits, there are a lot of moving parts; supporting your partner, supporting your child, supporting your other kids, all while trying to hold everything else together.

And then, on top of all that, you’ve got all the medical stuff going on like appointments, specialists, psychologists. And you’re trying to keep your relationship with your partner strong too.

Jo: And that’s often raised as an issue; staying connected as a couple. You and Meryl had some strategies to keep that connection strong while navigating this. Can you share what worked for you

Rohan: We used to take our dog for a walk. That was our time - an hour where we could talk, plan, and strategise. It was like a war room meeting. We’d discuss everything: appointments, challenges, what was coming up.

And it was good because we weren’t at home with listening ears around. We still had our phones with us in case anything happened, but it was our space.

Jo: That’s great. And I know some people who go and sit in their car for privacy or drive around the block just to clear their heads.

Rohan: Yeah, exactly. Sometimes you just need that space. And when we had time, we’d also check in on each other to ask How are we coping? Are we okay? But honestly, during the thick of it, our social life just disappeared. We didn’t have the energy to go out.

Jo: That’s such a common experience. And when you do go out, people ask, How are the kids? ... which is well-meaning, but the last thing you want to talk about.

Rohan: Exactly. Meryl went on a girls’ weekend once, and she set a boundary. She said, I’ll talk about our situation for five minutes, and then that’s it. No more.

Jo: That’s a great way to handle it; setting boundaries around what you’re willing to discuss and for how long. And a lot of that ties into self-care, making space for each other to have those breaks.

What are some of the self-care strategies you think are important for men?

Rohan: In the men’s group, we always talk about looking after yourself. Because if you’re not okay, you can’t support anyone else. But self-care can be tricky. Sometimes you feel guilty for taking time for yourself. But Meryl and I made sure we gave each other that space. You’ve got a weekend away? Go for it. I’ll manage. Then, when I had something I needed to do, she supported me.

It’s about sharing the load.

For me, self-care was simple:

• Walking the dog
• Gardening
• Listening to music
• Watching a good movie

Music was a big one. Songs bring back memories, and that nostalgia is really powerful. But the key is finding something that re-energises you. Because if you don’t take that time, you’ll burn out.

Jo: And that ties into men’s mental health. What do you hear in the group about how men know when they’re struggling?

Rohan: You see it. There’s a flatness. A lack of joy. They stop caring about things they used to love. And because mental health challenges in a family are relentless, it just wears you down. There’s no break. A lot of guys throw themselves into work. Others retreat, not knowing how to fit in.

That’s why it’s so important to find a role in your family, to find something you can do. For me, it was connecting with C in little ways like driving her places, chatting about school.

Jo: Has this experience changed the way you think about mental health as a man and as a father?

Rohan: I always tried to come back to being a parent. And that was incredibly difficult. But I made sure she knew I was always there. I was always supporting her. And I wanted her to see good things in a father figure. I wanted her to be proud of me, to respect me.

And I learned along the way, things like de-escalating situations instead of pushing harder.

Jo: At the end of every podcast, we ask for three takeaways. What are yours?

Rohan: I've got three that I've been thinking about. One is active listening and validation of what is being said. And I think this came out, this was a conversation we had with Meryl, because she used to spend, oh my god, hours, it felt like hours, up in C's bedroom, talking to her. Or what I thought was conversation. After years, and it was sometime when C was getting better, she just said, I just needed validation of what I was saying.

Jo: So what does validation ... what does she mean by validation?

Rohan: She just wanted acceptance. Just going, I feel this way, or I've done this, or You're doing this. She just needed someone to say, I hear you, I understand what you're saying, and I’m really sorry that we’re not doing that.

Just to have that confirmation of what she was saying. And whether you agreed with it, or whether you didn’t agree with it, or whether it seemed really wacky, or whether you just went, Where did you get that idea from? We've never done that.

Yeah, you just needed to validate it, and just go, Okay, I've heard it. This is what you're saying. We'll try and do better. It could even be, We’ve heard that, but I think we didn’t mean it like that. We understand what you’re saying.

But yeah, I think it’s just that validation of saying, We’ll try and do better. We’ll understand. We’ll take it on board, and we’ll do better.

Jo: Okay, so active listening and validation - tip number one. Tip number two?

Rohan: I think it's the one that we just touched on before, knowing when to back down. I think we've learned that it’s so easy and it depends a lot on your personality.

Sometimes you’re the bulldog or the terrier, and you just, you know, some people just can’t lose an argument, or they can’t be seen to be the weaker person, or whatever.

And it’s, you know, our personality types. It’s a great personality type if you’ve got that one that just goes, Oh yeah, whatever, and walks away.

But I think knowing when you're not doing any good, when you're not really going to make headway, when you're not going to win an argument and just being able to say, I’m just walking away from this. This is my point of view, and that's it.

Jo: Pick your battles.

Rohan: Pick your battles, exactly. And then de-escalate the whole situation. Just bring it down from 100. And there might be a bit of tension there for a while, but at least you've been able to, yeah, just calm the whole situation down, which has a ripple effect.

I mean, when things like that are happening, it has a ripple effect across the whole family and the whole vibe. So it’s a real challenge, and it’s a real skill to be able to do that.

Jo: So, practise backing down and de-escalation. And your third tip?

Rohan: Mine was being consistent with your message to the ED or to mental health in general. I think as a parent, you only want the best for your kids. You want them to be the best people they can be. So you support them with everything that they do.

But I suppose mine was to see - and the message was: We’re never leaving you. We’re never giving up on you. And we’ll always be there for you.

So if you think that ED or whatever's going on with you, if you think we’re going to leave, or that we’re not going to back you and not help you, then that is not happening.

We’re always going to be here for you. We’re always going to find a way around this. And we’re always going to get as much help as we can for you.

So just make sure that you know that, whatever’s going on inside your head, we’re going to be here for you. We’re not leaving you.

Jo: I know you had another secret one. Let’s have a fourth tip from you.

Rohan: Yeah, well, it was one that we've talked about in this podcast ... It's just looking after yourself. It’s really difficult to do.

I think, as you say, finding the time, not feeling guilty about it. But being able to have, just finding that activity, or something that you do that you really like and that you really look after yourself.

For me, I just used to enjoy walking the dog. That was one of the things. And Meryl and I both like that, so it was, you know, I've talked about that. Gardening. I like gardening. I’d get out and just weed the garden, or plant things, or whatever. I used to love doing that. I'm a huge music fan, so I just loved escaping into new music, old music.

And sometimes those things probably help bring back really good memories. You know how you hear a song and go, Oh my god, I remember when I heard that.

It has a great association with it. It sends up, I don’t know what it is within your system, but it sends up some really good vibes in me and helps pick me up. So I love that.

And I know, you know, seeing a good movie or just escapism - that sort of thing is really good. So having that time for yourself is so important. It helps re-energise you. It helps bring you back to reality, to help you on the next part of your journey, to helping the family. Because when people are really stressed, they get sick. And they’re just mentally not able to cope.

Jo: And I think we’ve all been there. And I think by having that time to yourself and re-energising yourself, it sort of helps recharge the batteries.

Rohan: Yeah.

Jo: And helping your partner have that same time as well. I think that's great. And it’s interesting that your tips on self-care are not actually the traditional ‘take a bath, do a face mask, breathe deeply.’ There are other things in life that are self-care - small things in a day that can bring you joy and, as you say, re-energise you.

So those are wonderful tips. Active listening and validation. Knowing when to back down and de-escalate. That consistency with your messaging to EDs and C that you are there and you are not leaving. And then, of course, looking after yourself.

Rohan, tell us. How is your daughter now?

Rohan: C’s going really well. It’s been a long journey. It’s probably taken nearly eight years, I would think. And we really went to the very depths of eating disorder where, at one stage, I thought we were probably almost going to lose her. But a slow turnaround. And now she’s, yeah, she’s flying. We always knew that she would do something pretty special. She moved to Sydney during COVID. She got a couple of jobs up there.

She eventually wanted to travel, which she did. And she ended up doing a Master’s in Public Administration with a science background in Rotterdam. Really, yeah - doing so well. We couldn’t be more proud of her. And in actual fact, we went over and saw her recently, back in May. And we went travelling together, which we had no idea how that would go. Travelling with your 25-year-old, nearly 26-year-old daughter. But it worked really well.

Jo: Was it okay?

Rohan: Oh yeah, no, it was good. Well, going anywhere new, where things were being paid for ... yeah, she was going to be on board with that.

Jo: Always seems to be helpful.

Rohan: Always helpful. And looking great, really good. But, importantly, we were able to have some really interesting and deep conversations with her.

Yeah, sorry, I just need to stop for a second. It’s a bit emotional because… a lot of damage had been done over the years. A lot of those connections that you have with your family, with her, had been destroyed.

So this was a great time to rebuild. For us to enjoy her wins. And also to rebuild and have some really deep conversations with her as an adult. As a young adult, who we would say has recovered. So we really feel great about where she’s at.

Jo: That’s wonderful news. Rohan, thank you so much for sharing your story. We’re so grateful for your insights, for your kindness, and for your generosity in sharing your experience.

It’s really important that men know there’s support for them too when a loved one is diagnosed with an eating disorder and that they’re not alone. So thank you so much, and lots of love to you and all those lovely women in your life.

Rohan: It’s been a pleasure. And I’ve really enjoyed helping people through our story and our journey, which has been very bumpy. But we know that people are doing it tough out there. And I know the help that we got through EDFA and our friends. So anything we can do to help, that’s fine with us.

Jo: Thank you, Rohan. That’s so great.

Thanks for listening to Strong Enough, a podcast by Eating Disorders Families Australia, an organisation caring for carers around the country.

Head to our website at edfa.org.au for links to more resources, including webinars, support groups, and the Fill The Gap counselling services.

All the links are below.

And remember: you are Strong Enough.

EDFA acknowledges Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people as the Traditional Custodians of the land this podcast was recorded on. We pay our respects to Elders past, present, and future.

Episode notes:

• Visit EDFA's website: edfa.org.au
• Contact EDFA: 1300 195 626
• Join Eating Disorders Families Australia’s Male Carer support group or other groups by clicking here
• Want more information and support resources for supporting someone with an ED?
• Click here to become an EDFA Member
• Visit EDFA's resources library
• Book a free counselling session with EDFA’s Fill The Gap program
• Keen to volunteer or donate to EDFA?
• Learn about volunteering
• Make a donation
• To learn about specific types of eating disorders, you can click the links below:
• Anorexia nervosa (AN)
• Bulimia nervosa (BN)
• Binge eating disorder (BED)
• Avoidant/restrictive food intake disorder (ARFID)
• Other specified feeding & eating disorders (OSFED)